Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Monument Matters, a podcast produced by the Monument Builders of North America for all things memorialization.
Each episode is an extension of our monthly magazine, MB News. Monument Matters invites everyone to listen and share. You'll find all of the episodes on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: I'm your host, Mike Johns, CM, AICA from the Johns Carabelli Company Cimarano Monuments and Flowers in Cleveland, Ohio. I'm also a past president of Monument Builders of North America. Today's episode is titled Placement with Purpose or How Monument Builders Can Support National Cremation placement day on October 17th.
Joining me for today's podcast are my colleagues Honolulu Hubbard and Garrett Wilson from Cold Spring, a granite coring and manufacturing firm headquartered in, you guessed it, Cold Spring, Minnesota.
Honolura is a regional Sales Manager for Cold Springs serving North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia. She is an accomplished speaker and writer who has presented at past MB University conferences and contributed numerous articles for MB News.
Drawing on her family background in funeral service and her personal experience in the death care profession, she helps memorial professionals use storytelling and purpose based conversations to guide families toward permanent memorialization.
Garrett Wilson, on the other hand, is the Regional Sales Manager of the Midwest. With more than 20 years experience with Coldspring, he's worn many hats, as you could see. It's kind of light up there throughout his career, including coring operations, customer care and field sales.
He's also a past president of the Manufacturers and Wholesalers Division of MBNA Honolulu. And Garrett, welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:58] Speaker C: Thanks for having us.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: All right, it's great to have you here. So October 17th is going to be the first national cremation placement Day. So what's the purpose of the event and why was it created when we
[00:02:12] Speaker A: considered cremation and considering really the magnitude that is happening across the country? And the other thing is it's the 150th year of the first cremation in the United States. And so, you know, let's focus on permanent placement memorialization. We focus so much on. On cremation itself. And so that's kind of where we started with our conversation internally at Cold Spring. And then we have this incredible vision that, you know, there's 22 million at a very conservative number of urns in homes today.
And how could we move them from homes or closets or garages into permanent placement into and to be memorialized? And so we said, well there, what if this big dream would happen that all across the country on one single day there were services in communities honoring lives, helping people be laid at rest and getting them out of those. Those homes and other places. And so we said that that may be just the greatest answer. And here's one of the biggest reasons why, Mike, is because this conversation is really relevant to all of us, because we have this conversation inside of our professions, but it has to become newsworthy, and it has to get out into public education, and we have to educate families that may or may not have any direct communication or relationship with people in our professions. And so we have to reach them where they are. And we said, if we create this day and create a big movement, maybe it will be newsworthy and maybe we can educate the public.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, Garrett, what'd she leave out? Anything?
[00:03:52] Speaker C: No, she pretty much nailed it on the head. I mean, the way we've looked at things coming out of, you know, post Covid, and I guess we can look at leading up to Covid, you know, we could see that the cremation trend were continuing to increase.
We recognize that there is a lot of unclaimed urns that are throughout the United States and that we need to try to figure out a way to bring those. Those families home and, you know, complete that emotional journey. And I think this is one area that. That everyone has a shared, shared interest in the industry that, you know, you, You. You hear the phrase we're all in this together repeatedly over and over.
This is really truly that case, because I think if. If we look at the. The trends in the direction that we're going, if we don't make some sort of a stand, if we don't, you know, bring this to. To everyone's attention, our industry will. Will stand to suffer, I think, a pretty significant downfall as we go. We still will have current trends, that there'll be a lot of people that will still utilize our services.
However, I think if you look at where things were at leading up to Covid, that that number is slowly diminishing. Actually, it's not probably slowly. It's quickly diminishing.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's true.
You know, if you recall a few podcasts back, we had some conversation about this topic, and we found that for the first time, when surveyed, folks said their first choice would be full burial if they had the opportunity for everything to fall in place. But ultimately, that isn't necessarily the way things turn out. But if they. But for the first time in a long time, the. The respondents are saying that that would be their first choice. So that's an encouraging little twist in the dynamic, I think. So the cremation association of North America or cana, recently published data suggesting that one in four homes have cremated remains stored on a shelf or a mantle or in a closet. With an estimated 22/ million. 22 million +, over 22 million urns left lying about without plans for permanent placement. Why are these numbers of concern for the monument builders today?
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Well, I think that for, for we. We have to quit being so nice to one another. Garrett.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Okay, Garrett, you go.
[00:06:38] Speaker C: Well, I mean, the concern is that, you know, if, if there's 22 million that are left in funeral homes, are left on shelves or left in closets, that, that there are many more families that aren't completing that emotional journey. And I think in. In the mindset of, of where we're at as a society, I think you need to be able to complete that. And, you know, one example I have is, is I had a colleague that passed away and I went to the service.
Beautiful service. There was an ear, there was a photo and. But I didn't have that. I, I didn't, I didn't. There wasn't a body there. Right. I didn't have that.
That the sight of just seeing somebody, you know, that has passed away, that I could bring my emotions to, To. To the table, grieve at that moment and, and move on. So. But what happened was when, when the memorial was set, that was the moment that I had a chance to go out and, and complete that emotional journey for myself. And that's where. When we started talking about this process and, and just this, this idea of National Commission placement day and, and the relevance of permanent memorialization, that was what struck a chord with me, is that I finally felt that completed journey and was able to move on. And now it's almost like if I was able to do it, then I know that there's others that need to be able to do that as well. And this wasn't even, you know, this wasn't a family member or anything like that. It was a colleague.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: It was that big of an emotional impact on me.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: And it's interesting that for you, and I never really thought about this myself because most of my experience is still with. At least in the. At the service, time of service, I should say, where we're waking a full barrier, a full body. There has been no cremation yet. Even if there was one down the road, I may or may not be aware, but the fact that you, you said looking at the urn is not the same as looking at that body or the casket. It's very Interesting.
Yeah. Ana Lura.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Well, I think that. And I completely agree with Garrett, there is something about getting to complete that emotional healing, that journey. Currently, there's this space between cremation and memorialization. Right. And so we have someone who. They're cremated, and there is no urgency. There is no, you know, if it was a casket, no one's taking the casket home with them, right, Mike?
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. But with an urn, you can take it home and you can say someday. And then someday ends up not happening. Right. And now we've added guilt. We start compounding the grief with guilt, and now we've done harm. The other thing is that long term, when that starts to happen is a couple of generations away. And if you just stop and think about this is, do you know, off the top of your head, your great grandma's mom and dad or great grandma's name, right. And granddad or maybe you're great. Great. How many generations does it take for you to really kind of get detached from your family? And it's not really very many for most people.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: And it's shorter and shorter, I think.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. And so when that happens and you inherit great Grandma and grandpa or great Uncle Ed or great Aunt Tilly, you don't have the same emotional attachment.
And this is what we have found that is happening. And this is extremely concerning because we all care about the families we serve, and we want to help put them in the healing journey, but we also don't want to, you know, add harm to them. Right.
And so at this point, we know they end up in. In the Goodwill bin. We know they ended up at a thrift store.
Right. Different places like that. Or someone's cleaning out an abandoned storage unit and they find them. You know, we've. We've seen those. But people are now admitting that I had no attachment. I didn't know what to do. So when we moved, we just threw them in the trash.
And so for me, it is. Could you imagine? I mean, that's got to be doing some harm to somebody. One the generations, they got handed down through, and they didn't know what to do with them, and they felt bad that they left them and hadn't kind of finished their loved one's journey.
But then when someone says, hey, I don't really care what you do, just cremate me.
I don't ever think their next thought is, and if need me, throw me in the trash.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Right.
Yeah. I think that too often we don't look at the reality that cremation or full burial that, you know, cremation isn't. You can have cremation, but disposition or placement of those cremains is a critical part.
And you know, I think that we are, as we bring awareness to people as these type of statistics, 22 million. Over 22 million. And I'm not sure, Garrett, you're mentioning before, if those 22 million do include cremaines that are left at the funeral home.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: You know, I'm not sure that's another 2 million, Mike.
Another 2 million estimated according to Kana, that get left at funeral homes and never, never retrieved.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's the connection to family I think is something that really plays there. And I see that changing over time. I mean, I don't want to tell you I still have a napkin holder that hung on the inside of a cabinet door at my grandparents house.
Why I kept it.
I mean, it's a silly thing, but it just connects me to all those memories.
And that's really the purpose of the memorial. Doesn't matter. Full burial or cremation, that role is still there and it's still really, really important.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: For sure, absolutely. And when, when we look at it, and as I was saying, there's this, this pause that happens between they were cremated and then memorializing them. I think we can all help families embrace that pause because it offers some creativity. It offers an opportunity to gather with your family and, and make decisions in maybe a clear, less emotional time about how you really, really want to hon.
And so I think that if we, if we just transition instead of seeing it as, as, as a negative, look at it as a positive for these families that selected cremation. And because now they have time and they can take that time and really do the very best and what feels right in honoring their loved one. So I think it is just embracing that pause and making the very most of it is how we can really help families in their healing journey.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Sure, I think you're right.
So what conversations are families often avoiding or postponing when cremated remains remain at the home? And how can monument professionals approach those conversations with sensitivity?
[00:14:16] Speaker C: Well, I think a lot of people, because we are a transient society, right. And we tell each other, we're talking to folks about embracing the pause.
It's during that time is, you know, what are our next steps? Right? We want to have a service. When are we going to do that? And then it's, then it's what are we going to do after the service? And I think that's where the real discussion Is. And I see National Cremation Placement Day is not necessarily having the day. You know, we'd love to see services all over. We'd love to have discussions, but really maybe setting that as, hey, let's bring. Let's bring families in to have the discussion about what the plan is. Not necessarily that we're going to be having an internment or anything like that, but it's the jumping off point to say, hey, you know, where do we go from here? We know that. We know that we're going to have a service. All right, so that's great. But what's. What's the next step? Are we. Are we looking at a memorial? Where.
Where's dad going to be at? And having those discussions is really the next step that I see a lot of monument dealers helping out with. You know, and where we're at is we're, you know, monuments are a blank palette to share your story. Right.
So how do we share that story and how do we get that story out? And that's where I really believe that dealers getting out in the community, having discussions with media, having discussions with local clergy, things like that, is really what's going to help drive this position and the ability to help more families.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that we were very strategic, Mike, in selecting the date, and we wanted to make sure that we had a date that was going to precede our holidays where a lot of us get together with our families.
The hope is, exactly to Garrett's point, is that if. If we're in our communities having conversations with local media, they're covering it, it becomes public education, and there it's. They. They're seeing it on the evening news and in the newspaper, wherever, you know, social media, and it's raising their awareness.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: That we can do something and it's not too late. And. And so imagine that they hear all of this in September, October, they're with their families for Thanksgiving or Christmas, and it's top of mind, and they can get together and have some conversations to say, hey, I heard this on the news the other evening or a few weeks ago. And, you know, I know we still have mom and dad and they're, you know, at Susie's house, but what is our plan forward? Because I didn't realize we needed to think about.
And so I think that helping families do that and again, is making sure that we're doing it in a very supportive way. Not, you have to do this now. You need to get this done. I can't believe you still have them at Home. But it really should be, how can we support you? And it's never too late, and now's as good a day as any. And the best plan is to have a plan, and we want to help you do that. And doing that and making these plans for your family is really an act of kindness and love and leadership for your family.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: And then it comes down to all of us helping lead those families to. To some good solutions. They can finally feel really good about it, because what happens is they just have this sense of it's all been left undone.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Well, you know, to Garrett's point, the memorialization is really a critical component to that healing process, to the ability to move on and go through the next phase of grief and remembrance and all of that. And, you know, sure, it's easy to. That that urn is on that back shelf somewhere behind last year's tennis shoes or whatever. But figuring out how to gently set a reminder that says, is that really good enough? Does that really, you know, yes, that's the remains of our mortal body and spirit and soul are no longer there, if that's your belief.
But still there was a life lived. And whether that body was cremated or buried or what have you, the whole idea behind the memorial is to celebrate the life lived, no matter what the disposition. So getting people to remember that. And, you know, I'm sure in certain instances, they'll say, boy, I. I don't want to revisit those feelings and those.
All that sadness or. Or what have you. But I think that in the end, very few people will be able to say, oh, that was a mistake. I should have let sleeping dogs lie.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: I. I absolutely agree. And, you know, one way that we. We really help families see it, there's a. There's a way of. Of having conversations with people that you can try to tell them something. Right. And it's kind of coming from the external, and we have a tendency to resist those things, or maybe it's just me. But when someone tells you a story and you start finishing the story before they get to the end, then it was all your idea, right? And we gravitate to that. So we decided to try to find a story, a single story that could help do that, that really, you know, if you're anywhere in the United States, and that you probably would agree to this. Right? And so we want to tap into our. Just our social experiences together as. As a. As a greater community.
And so I was looking at this, and there was a time when I was getting on a plane and There was a flag draped casket going into the belly of the plane, and everyone stopped. And we were hearing the story of, of the gentleman that was coming home from World War II and they, they'd finally found him. And I was amazed. We all just stood there in awe and, and honoring him in his life. And so we landed in Indianapolis at the time, and, and everyone sat quietly and there were some tears. And it was someone that none of us had ever met or, you know, none of us have ever met, right? And, and so the family was there and they were bringing his casket out and they were putting it into the coach. And it was so meaningful and we were all so moved by it. And I realized that one, we all need a hero. We love heroes, right? And it doesn't matter how long a hero has passed from our military services, we will as a nation go to any length, any expense, any length of time to bring them home, no matter what remains left of them, and to give them a place of honor, a permanent place, and a memorial that allows their life to live on. And, and I think that when we stop and think about that and we think about the heroes of our own
[00:21:45] Speaker B: lives,
[00:21:48] Speaker A: because we all have personal heroes, and when we think about those, do they deserve any less?
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely not. And maybe, you know, their, their level of heroism, if you will, or their impact on the world might not be as memorable or noticeable, but in there, in some small way, they made a difference in your life.
And so that's the, you know, again, that's that thing that needs to be celebrated or at the very least recognized.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: I think too, the, just the overall way that, that our society just handles death in general.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Right?
[00:22:37] Speaker C: I mean, you, you, you basically get a couple of days off for work to go have the service, and immediately that you're supposed to get back into it. Right?
And I think that cremation and having that earned, that just helps perpetuate that because now I don't even need to be there physically. You know, like, we can just go a, a direct cremation and, and things are done, right. So that pause ends up becoming longer and longer and longer.
So with this, with this idea, if, if you can have that discussion and, and yes, we have. We. Everybody's going to pass. We haven't figured that. We haven't figured out that solution yet.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: But if it's. The sooner it becomes more acceptable, especially just understanding on the emotional aspect of cremation and, and what the significance of having an urn and then being able to have it placed someplace with the memorial and in that journey, I think that's, that's a very. That's a big impact on our society. Just in where we're going in a direction and, and, you know, with everything being as fast, the Amazon world, the Facebook, all those different things, we want it now. This is where, this is a moment where you have to take it, take a step back and, and remember and reflect and, and understand that it's. It may, it may not just be you. Right. You're going to have some emotional feelings, but there's a lot of other people that are part of that journey. And having this closed loop to being able to have a memorial, I think that helps everybody. And that's really, in my mind, that's what the goal should be.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Sure.
So what steps should a minor retailer begin taking now to prepare for October 17th? And what would a successful National Cremation Placement Day be, campaign or event look like for an individual business and for our profession as a whole?
[00:24:34] Speaker A: I would say the first thing is you can go to Cold Springs website. We did. We created a lot of marketing materials, absolutely at no charge. You can open them up, put your logo on them. But the most important thing is go grab the press release and the story media, story idea and get that immediately out to your local media. Because what you want to do is immediately, as quick as you can, start educating your community on the importance of permanent placement and memorialization. I think that's the starting point for all of it. I think also having conversations with your community partners that you already have, just engaging your community. Maybe it is with the Rotary Club or the Kiwanis or whoever it is that you're engaged with, but also local clergy and churches. And then I'm sure that, that there are cemeteries that you do work in that you support. And how can you engage with them? A lot of time, municipal cemeteries, they're not interested in selling monuments, but they have a trusted monument dealer they work with. That's a beautiful relationship to pair with them to help educate the community. So I would say, you know, really starting there, get the word out, start the conversation in your community.
Let people know that there's this pause that has happened and you can take advantage of it and you can help honor your loved one's life. And there are trusted professional people full of education to help you do that. And I think that monument dealers can really position themselves as that trusted educator in their community and bring solutions to a really challenging moment.
[00:26:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. I think if you're, if you're able to work with, whether it's the Sextons or you're, you know, the dealer network that you may have with your funeral directors. And just getting that, having that conversation with them first and talking to them about the importance of it, I think that's really where you're going to get a lot of groundswell, especially locally. You don't have to bite it all off at once.
It's just a matter of starting the discussion and building it out from there.
And everybody's, you know, everybody's National Commission Placement Day may be a little bit different. Right. There may be some different areas of the country that are going to experience this much different than others.
But the idea is that you're starting that discussion.
This is the kickoff point for everybody that look, we have a concern. There's a lot of urns that are at home. We need to find a place for them. How can you help us with that journey?
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Sure.
So you mentioned one or two things already, Honolura, but what other ready to use resources are available to monument retailers participating in National Cremation Placement Day and how else can they access them?
[00:27:33] Speaker A: That is a great question.
So you can do a really quick search. ColdSpringUSA.com National Cremation Placement Day. It's going to pop right up at the top of of your search and you can jump on there. We built.
There are social media post samples, there are postcards. So there are marketing materials, brochures, There is a like a sign that you can print out supporting the effort. And then there are educational resources. We even have a PowerPoint so you can teach your staff how to develop the program and how to best do it. We give you breakdown of the different things you need to be doing at different times to accomplish it. And so there really is just an incredible wealth of knowledge and resources. And again, it's not about Cold Spring. It is about you. It's about your community. It's about the families that you serve. That is why when you pull those up, you put your logo on them. Because the people in your community need to know your name.
And so we want to make sure that they're connected with their monument dealer and they're having those conversations.
So there's really everything that you need to really download the information, read through it, get the education that you need and then put it into practice. It's really a turnkey effort. We did this because we know that this is such an incredibly large issue and it's impacting so many families across the US and Cold Springs been here for 127 years. And we love what we do and we're proud of what we do.
And so we wanted to find something that we could do as a gift to our entire profession and to just kind of make a difference and to kind of raise the alarm on. We're facing a crisis and we're the answer to the crisis.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: I think this is a tremendous thing that Cold Spring is bringing to our industry.
You know, so many times I get asked about relationships in this industry and I think this is just, I can't think of a better example of why it is so critically important to partner with your domestic manufacturers.
I'm not going to get up on a soap opera soapbox, but I'm going to say we're in this together. And I appreciate the support that I get from mine and I look forward to seeing more coming from Cold Spring on this initiative and I'm sure others down the pike. So thank you for that, for sure.
So you've developed two complementary initiatives, right. Year round cremation training and the National Cremation Placement Day. How do they work together to change the conversation about permanent placement and memorialization?
[00:30:33] Speaker C: I think the idea was we knew that we're in a crisis mode, right. We know that the idea is to raise the awareness first in the industry and then the second portion is, okay, now how do we get that message out to everybody else? So the two parts, they work in tandem. Where, you know, we have that discussion, we, we let everybody know that, you know, and there's, there's quite a few people that, that are in the industry that just didn't realize how big of a problem this is. I mean, when you say that, you know, there's 20 potential of 25 million earns that are at home, you know, in my mind.
Yeah, right, exactly. Just the, the opportunity, the, the potential that's there.
I think that's where we need to be able to, you know, share the message but also realize that this is, there is an opportunity to help your business out to become even more successful than it already is. And, and whether that is when you, when you, when you saw a family comes into your showroom, do you have a particular area that is primarily set up for cremation or do you have some, some different products that are available?
Because most likely they're going to ask, right? And, and I think it's up to us to ask the type of disposition, right. You know, is your loved one, you know, is this for, for you or your, for your family member? Are they, are they Going to be cremated and then see what that, what that discussion, where that discussion goes from there. Because it, for the, you know, for the longest time we always thought, oh, maybe it's all, it's due to price. Right. It's a financial, it isn't necessarily that. It's the way that people feel that this is the route that they want to go. So I think if we can get beyond that and then all of a sudden we start looking at the opportunity that's out there for us. Not only are we helping families out with this emotional journey, but we're also helping our businesses out financially too. So it's a win, win the way I see it.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And it is the. We have our Cold Spring cremation initiative and we're really teaching, like Garrett was saying, inside our industry. We're having those conversations about how can we have this conversation better, more productive, more supportive, how do we, we don't use pressure based language, we use purpose based language in supporting these families. How do we rehumanize cremation and reconnect the emotion? So we're teaching that. And in that we have marketing mater you can use year round that we've created as well. So there's a whole marketing campaign because again, that's what a lot of this is going to come down to. And then the National Day is really, if we're going to have this conversation, let's have a target date, let's have a moment in time where we raise the awareness across our communities.
And then the last thing that I want to add about kind of the two of them working together is Mike, you mentioned 25% of homes in the United States have earned in them today and some of them multiple earns. So as you drive down the street on your way home today, count 1, 2, 3, 4, right? That fourth house needs you. So if you live in a community of 10,000 households, 2,500 of those households need a memorial today.
That's an astonishing number.
And so just do the math as far as the size of your community. But really, I think when we stop and consider 1, 2, 3, that house, 1, 2, 3, that House, they need us. They need healing, they need to have a conversation. They have unfinished business.
And so that's why we built the two. And they really, they really support one another because we need to be good at this conversation and ready to serve those families. And then we have to raise really the level of conversation in the communities so that people understand there are options.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: So if a monument builder has more questions about the program or about National Cremation Placement Day. Who should they contact?
[00:34:57] Speaker C: You can definitely reach out to your, your Cold Spring Field rep. They'll be able to share some information out to you. You can easily go on to our website and, and do the request for information on there as well. That'll funnel through our marketing department and then I'll get the information to the appropriate folks. And I think one of the things that, you know, because this could seem a little, a little overwhelming right where this is a busy time of year we're leading up to, you know, on the. In the upper Midwest, we're starting to lead into the winter. Everybody is really busy trying to get things done.
So as you look at your firm, maybe you want as many people on board as possible, right? But maybe there's somebody in your firm that's going to really, really gravitate towards this and maybe you make them the point person to handle that and to do some more research and how to move the needle there so that person could easily reach out to us and we can start that discussion and look at almost at a firm by firm basis if need be, and how to develop the program.
We're here as a resource and I think if we can have the discussion together like we are right now, there'll be more things that will come out of it as we move along.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Sounds great. Honolulu. Any last thoughts?
[00:36:23] Speaker A: We're just really thankful that you gave us this opportunity to share. This is, as we have have already discussed, this is a really major issue for a lot of people. But I do think that it is a major opportunity for us to serve families. I think it's a major opportunity for us to build companies, dealerships, cemeteries, funeral homes. And at the end of the day, it really is all of us, we all have a seat at this table. And that's one of my favorite things about this effort, is there's no one group that can solve it.
It's not just a cemetery thing, a funeral thing, a monument dealer's thing, a vendor thing. It's. It really is all of us working together. So it's just like a lot of crises or disasters, they have a tendency to bring a community together. And I think that's exactly what this one is doing.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Wow.
All right. Well, I want to thank our listeners for tuning in today's installment of Monument Matters. And thank you, Honolura and Garrett for sharing your insights. The August issue of NB News introduces links and tools for monument builders to use to plan ahead and to participate in the national Cremation placement day on October 17th, so I encourage you to read this issue, and if you have a topic you'd like to have covered in a future podcast, you can leave a comment. MB&A invites you to stay connected through Facebook and LinkedIn, or visit us at www.monumentbuilders.org for upcoming events and webinars. And additional news on National Cremation Placement Day For MBNA and Monument Matters, I'm Michael Johns. Thank you for taking time out of your day to listen in. If you have today's content worthwhile, and I really hope you do did please share the link with a friend for comments and feedback. We'd love to hear from you, so please drop a note to infoonmerebuilders.org that's it. Thanks and have a good day. Thanks, Garrett. Thanks, Honolulu
[00:38:19] Speaker C: Sam.
