Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Speaker A: Welcome to Monument Matters, a podcast produced by the Monument Builders of North America for all things memorialization.
Each episode is an extension of our monthly magazine, MB News.
Monument Matters invites everyone to listen and share. You'll find all of the episodes on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: I'm your host, Mike Johns, CM AICA from the Johns Caravelli Company Cimarano Monuments and Flowers in Cleveland, Ohio. I'm also a past president of the Monument Bullets of North America.
Please join me in welcoming today's guest. Anthony Minozzi, Chief Operating Officer, Travis Monument Group, Nyack, New York. Anthony continues a long family legacy in the memorial industry. The family business was founded in the US in 1899 after working as stone carvers in Naples, Italy for four generations.
Morning, Anthony, and welcome.
[00:01:02] Speaker C: Morning, Mike. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Glad you could join us. To start us off, can you tell us a little bit about Travis Monument Group's history and how it's grown through acquisitions and integrations?
[00:01:15] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Happy to.
[00:01:17] Speaker C: Okay. So the Travis Monument Group was started when our predecessor, who was the last member of the Travis family, decided it was time for him to retire.
He and my father had enjoyed a good relationship over the years. They were very much complementary from one another.
Travis had always been a professional group and the way that they present themselves, themselves, they wore coat and ties, you know, in their office, it was just very, very well put together, high quality outfit.
And my father had more of a blue collar approach to it. He had work shop and on the monuments and on the setting truck.
So my father had owned three locations in New York with his brothers, their father, my grandfather, their grandfather and their uncles.
So he had that already started. But when Bill Osgood, the last family member of the group, wanted to retire, he approached my father and asked my father if he was interested in taking over his location. And my father at that time always wanted to do something on his own because he was with his brothers. There were a lot of people involved in that company and my cousins and my elders.
And he wanted to do something on his own at that point.
And so he and Bill met and they put a deal together and he presented it to his kids, me and my siblings.
My siblings really had no interest. They, they all had their careers ready. I was in college still, I hadn't started my career yet. I was just finishing up my bachelor's and starting my mba. So we agreed that I would do my MBA at night, work for him during the day, and the deal was done. We started Travis Monument Group, my father and I, in 1998.
And at the time my mother was helping us and she was terminally ill with cancer and it was really just three of us and we did everything. We met with the customers, phones, did books, set the stones, we cut our own stencils, made our own drawings, etc. Everything.
And it was, it was tough.
She got sicker and sicker, but she, she was a great role model for me and for my father. She was an inspiration to keep working hard because I think in his mind she was vested and she was behind him, so he wasn't going to let it fail. And I'm happy to say, obviously, you know, we're still here.
In year one, the three of us managed to double it, double the revenue of the business.
And years two and three, we doubled it again.
And I, I credit that to a couple of things and that was the, that right there was the spark that built our model.
We saw that being rigid was not, there was no place for rigid in a customer centric environment.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Environment.
[00:04:52] Speaker C: We, you have to be flexible and you not.
There isn't one shoe, you know, that fits all. You have to try to make it work for everyone. And my father brought that to the table.
If someone came in with limited resources, he would find something that would work for them.
And we always had that accommodating way about us, but we never took the shortcut on the back end. We'd still generate the same quality, but we worked with people and that word spread and over time we, we were approached by Spring Valley Monuments. That was our first acquisition.
That was 2003.
We were, we were approached by Spring Valley Monuments. So it didn't take long before.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: We.
[00:05:51] Speaker C: Were only there since 98, so five years.
And then once Spring Valley came to us, we had a conversation and that was very easy. I'm glad my first acquisition was with them because they were just such great group of people. They made it easy, so comfortable.
We, the deal was made, it was done quickly and we were off and running At Spring Valley. There was a little hiccup in location.
They thought the lease was going to be renewed, wasn't going to be renewed. So that came on to us to deal with. But they helped us find a new location and it was all sorted out.
The next two locations.
And that's really what you want me to expand on, right, the aspect.
So the next two locations were more, more of an organic startup.
They were, they were startups, acquisitions. So one of them lives in funeral homes throughout a rural area. So not one brick and mortar location, but several funeral homes. Throughout a rural territory.
And. And the other one is, is at what, what was once a monument company many, many years ago and had. Hadn't been for years.
And then the property came for sale and a local funeral director, who I knew had a relationship with, called me and said, Anthony, you know, you got to consider this. This is a great location for you.
So with his recommendation, I met with the property owner. The deal was made and we opened up now with four locations. At that point, this, now we're up to about 20.
The rural one was about 28, 2009 around, and then the next one was like 2012, 2013.
So now with four locations, we were able to sort of water test some policies and procedures to see if they were scalable and really test the model.
And I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself. But my goal was to build a model that would be a model that would be a little bit vertically integrated, but something that you could scale and just keep on locations too. So once the model was built, I wanted to be able to just simply pick up another location and fold it into the process and keep going.
So with four locations, we were able to do that. It wasn't too much where we didn't have time to build the model, but it wasn't so little where we didn't need.
Does that make sense?
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Yep, it does.
So let me ask you though, you've at this point, you've acquired how many businesses at this point?
[00:08:50] Speaker C: We had the original Travis.
We had two startups and two acquisitions.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Okay, so how did you company name, how did you decide what to do there? Did you keep those company names active? Did you roll them under one umbrella? What was the thought process?
[00:09:14] Speaker C: That's a great question.
And it's a great question because that is very hard to figure out.
And I don't want to give a one size fits all answer.
You have to know your market and you have to be very careful when you, when you address that.
So with Spring Valley Monuments, they had a reputation in their community, and that was different than Travis, and they were close enough to compete. So I left Spring Valley Monuments the same.
I even kept their branding separate. Everything separate. Now with, with the new locations, I, I named them something that the local community would recognize and appreciate.
So, for example, one is in Putnam county, in New York, we call the Putnam County Monuments. One is in Orange County, New York, we call it Orange County Monuments.
You know, everybody knows Orange county choppers, right? So it, it's easy to remember Orange County Monuments, Putnam County Monuments. Simple.
When there's an existing name with an existing reputation that you want to build on. It's probably best to keep it.
But over time we started to build a regional reputation where people started to recognize.
They knew our setters were coming in for different locations now, like, you know what I mean? Like they knew who we were. They knew the permit process was by the same office.
The cemeteries were starting to see that it was the same group. So we thought maybe we should bring these all under one umbrella. So we, we made our company branding and our logo all according, you know, to that consistency where they all have their own names, but under diff. Under the same umbrella and brand.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Okay, I understand. So, so you kept the goodwill associated with those names. And, and on the face of it, to some extent they did kind of. Did they still look like independent companies or were you, were you promoting the fact that it was so and so Monument Co. A division of.
[00:11:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, I get it. I, that's, that's nuanced, but it's real.
So, so we, we kept it as different companies because one of our locations is, is in a different state. It's in Connecticut.
So they had no idea who Travis was, but they knew, they, they knew the name Ravelli because that was a local in Danbury, Connecticut and they, so I, I obviously want to keep that in that and that goodwill, but I did bring the Ravelli look under our umbrella. So it had, it had all the same policies, all the same procedures and we'll get into that. But it, it would, the model is identical. Ravelli as it is, Putnam county as it is, Travis as it is, all of our other locations, but the name is the same. So if you go to a dignity memorials, for example, you're probably going to get similar service in Michigan as you are in New York.
And you know what I'm saying? But, but we, we try to keep them separate. So the only problem that we ran into with that separation was the web. The website and marketing companies were telling us, us, you can't build separate websites for all your separate locations individually. The marketing is going to become a nightmare. Google search optimization is going to be a disaster.
So, so we had to roll it under one website. That that was the only downside with the exception of Spring Valley, because Spring Valley is so close to other, our other location, Our, our main location that I, I couldn't do that because people shop both locations so that, that would work.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: So clearly you bring a high level of respect for the family legacy in these companies that you acquire I can see that.
So what are some other ways of how that respect is demonstrated in your model?
[00:13:41] Speaker C: It's a good question.
It means a lot to us because I saw how hard it was for my father to leave his brothers and to start with Travis.
And I knew what he wanted to carry on and I knew what he didn't want to carry on.
So I've also seen through the years how my father has treated this business as his baby. So I understood that when we were approaching someone who was looking to depart or retire or whatever, they would, they would want the same.
So I, I tried to look at it with what I would want if, if that were my baby.
So that, that's not the same for every individual and that, that's why it's hard. I was saying it's hard to say. So each scenario is different.
I can say that we weave that respect into day one conversations.
The person that's selling is part of our decision making process.
At every step of the way we ask them about how they would feel about some of the decisions we're going to make, how we do things, how the deal is structured, the way that we're going to certain aspects of the company.
We bring them in now, we draw boundaries. We're. I'm totally transparent about that.
There are some things that I, I can't copy and do and, and emulate. That's just not who we are. And I'm not going to contort our business or pretend that then you lose that. If you are not transparent and honest from day one, you risk, you risk your character and you risk you losing the, the validity and the, and the integrity of your word. And I will not do that no matter what because then the whole, the whole negotiation shot, nothing you say matters anymore.
So the we go ahead.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: I, I was going to say we can circle back to that a little bit more in, in a couple of upcoming questions. I, I totally get that, but let's sidestep for just a second because part of the process of acquisition certainly has to be valuation. Right?
You have to have some kind of understanding what that target business is worth and not just what you're worth, but what you're willing to pay.
Can you talk about that?
I mean obviously this could be a whole podcast in and of itself, this conversation. But just what are some of the high level for that process?
[00:16:34] Speaker C: So you're saying to. On valuation or fit on valuation first.
So as you know, there are a myriad of ways to assess valuation of a company. You can work off margins, you can work off gross revenue.
There are so many different formulas.
We've used both strategies.
We'll either, we'll either look at 3 years average revenue and go 1 times 3 years average revenue. We'll look at, we could look at three years average margin. Do three times three years average margin.
But in my opinion, frankly, it doesn't matter what you do because the seller is going to want what they want and they're going to have a value in mind that they want. You just have to determine whether the income, not income but the margin and the revenue of that business is on a trend to support it, not whether it's supported in one given year. That means nothing to me. I want to see five years of performance and want to see where the trend is because you know how markets are.
And if, if their market has changed and that's why they're getting out of the business and it's on a decline, their trend is not going to support that number. Perhaps, maybe, but maybe it does now. So if it's heading down, it's, it's a red flag.
If it's, if it's steady or heading up yet, you have to make an investment on what you could do. So that, that and I go through a little this, a little bit of this in the article. But that's, that's how we, we try to try to work in the. But I, I know that the, that the growing trend is the, the, the buyout or the earn out. Now that, I mean our accountant is recommending that in, in as many situations as possible where, where let's say you value something at 300,000 and you think that the business is worth 300 and they want to sell it at 400,000.
So maybe you, you work out a deal where you give them a minimum 100,000 over the next three years, they got a commission on your stimulus that gives them a maximum of 500,000. So now you're kind of both vested in the performance of that company over the next three years and they're getting a guaranteed with a possible higher amount. So for certain individuals that provides an upside and a win win. But for others who have had it up to here and just want to be done and they want to go to Key Largo or wherever it is to retire and be, and just mentally check out, they want their number and they want to be out and you have to know whether that number is going to be sustainable based on the revenue of that company.
Once I know their number and I make that decision, I'm not really haggling.
The numbers are the numbers. It's either going to work or not. Does that, does that make sense?
[00:19:34] Speaker B: Yep. So, so based on that, let me ask you, how many times have you tried and just walked away because the numbers didn't fit?
[00:19:41] Speaker C: Oh, more times than I tried and went ahead.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Okay, that's fair. That's, that's a great answer. Okay, so let's talk about cultural and business philosophy. Fit from the, you know, the company that you're looking to acquire versus your current situation, how much of a consideration was that for you and should it be when considering acquisition?
[00:20:09] Speaker C: This is a big one.
Fit is, is just so important.
So you have to first check some major boxes. Is it, is it in its geographically? Is it practical for you?
Can you, can you manage the office and the personnel you know, you have that has to have some type of supervision and management cross coverage?
Can it, are the setting routes going to be reasonable for you?
So you know, once those initial boxes are checked, then you have to look at cemeteries, I think and see if those local cemeteries see you as an outsider or will accept you, welcome you. What about the community? Does the community welcome you? Does the community see you as an outsider? And what, what were the hallmarks of that business that made them successful? Can you emulate those hallmarks without contorting your business model? So an example, one of our locations catered heavily to an Eastern Orthodox.
Now these are the Russian, primarily Russian Orthodox Catholic monuments, very large style crosses.
And that was different than what our other market had been before that.
So we had to make a determination whether that mark was going to be something we could adapt our model to and efficiently serve.
And we did. We found it was. There was a learning curve. We were able to do it. Now there are some cases where maybe you're, you're in a very religious Jewish market. And I don't, I don't know how familiar you are, but we have a Hasidic population in one of our, near one of our locations.
And you have to be set up to produce those stones. These could have 3, 4, 500 letters on a monument.
And this market gives you an order on Thursday and it has to be set on Saturday.
So you, you have to be very well set up to do this. That was not for us. It. And, and we would not be able to retool and, and serve that market in an efficient way. So we had to pass on that.
So you have to make sure that, that it makes sense geographically and practically. And then culturally, as you said, are will Will you be welcomed in? And then will you what whatever made that company successful, can you, can you emulate that? Can you support that? And then maybe even as a bonus, what do you bring to the table that could, that could level that up? Say, could you do better?
[00:22:59] Speaker B: So are you talking about welcomed in to the community or welcomed in to the corporate culture and you know those employees that you've acquired?
[00:23:13] Speaker C: I have, I mean I know that. I think there's, there was a topic at one point that we had discussed about, about the employees. And I have a whole, have a lot to say about that. That's, that's a key component of an acquisition.
But what I'm referring to here is community resources. So maybe they're subcontractors or people that, whoever feed them leads, funeral homes, maybe vault guys in the area, cemeteries, foremen, that kind of a thing. Like the, the things that make the wheels turn in our business.
We, for example, two of our most recent acquisitions, we, when we went in, we, we were welcomed.
We, we knew we were because we had been into the cemeteries that those companies were infrequently and they knew that the signs were on the, the proverbial writing was on the wall with these other companies and they had said sort of tongue in cheek, when are you guys going to go into, into that location?
So we kind of knew that this is going to be welcomed if we're there.
So that is encouraging. You know, whereas if you go into a market, let's say, let's say you go into a market where a cemetery has the same monument, like the same, like in our, if you ever talk to guys down in the city in New York or whatever urban area, you'll see like their set sizes with set finishes and there's whole sections, you know, one eight by eight by two dies, you know, two by one by eight bases, whatever it is saw by and everything is the same and they, they just turn these things out fast. And that's really not what we do. Where we are, we're, we're a little bit outside of the city. We're about an hour outside the city. So we're dealing with suburban type cemeteries. So we do much more custom work. We'd have to now think about are we going to be able to retool to fit that? Because if you're, if you're going in green, the cemetery is going to pick that up. They're going to know right away that you're not, you're weak. And the cemetery, as you know, they want to deal with someone who's on the wall, who knows the drill and who's going to be easy to work with. They want you to make their life easy.
So that, that, that's what I mean by is it culturally is, and not only culturally, but business model wise.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: So I think what you're saying is sometimes you have to know it's, you know, there might be some value there, but the, it's just not a fit. And so it's not worth the time and energy it takes to, to make that transition. So I can understand that for sure.
So, all right, so we've covered the fit in the community.
Let's talk about this. You know, one of the toughest parts then of acquiring a company is figuring out how to work with the existing team.
So how do you approach honoring the longtime staff while also making sure everyone's aligned with your company values? How do you make that fit work?
[00:26:37] Speaker C: I have to agree with you 100% on, on the statement and in, in the question.
This is probably one of the toughest areas of the transition that, that, that I've experienced. At least it's a, it's a substantial impact on the success of that company long term and how quickly you will get up to operating success.
So what I mean is profitability and growing trend.
So you could, you, you have to kind of get a feel for the, the people that are currently on the team there.
So you want to figure out how, how does this company run as a whole, what, who makes what contribution to that, to the process, who makes that company successful.
And then you have to be able to see how those practices, that those policies will fold into yours.
And I try to just take the time to observe, to observe it and, and look and ask questions.
And at some point I will ask for a totally transparent conversation with the team where I will lay out what we're going, what our plans are, what types of changes that they, that, that I can observe, we are going to make, in order to make, to make this work with our team, I ask what we can do to accommodate them. It's not just about us. They've been there for a long time and they have contributed to the success.
But I have to see if the energy is there to grow with us or are they just bringing years of baggage to the table and I have to now be the person that justifies maybe wrongdoings from years past.
That's not going to work.
I can't dig you out of a hole that was created by someone else.
I, I can, I, I, I Mean, I'm the people that work for us.
I'm blessed to, to be working with. And I, I know in my heart they're very happy, and I'm very happy.
I, I want them to be happy, and I genuinely would want anyone that, that joins us to be happy.
But there are some people that you just can't make happy, and, and maybe, maybe something happens outside of your control. So you have to kind of, you have, you have to get through that.
You also have to see. You'd be surprised. Don't assume that the company is managed the same way yours or someone else's is.
I've seen companies where certain salespeople have, like, a proprietary book of business with, with lead generators that are theirs and that they don't disclose to the owner of the business. So when you buy the business, you don't have access to the revenue stream, to the full revenue stream.
You get what I'm saying?
Think of like a hair salon. Like if one of the stylists leave and they take their book of clients with them.
That's right. And now it.
That affects the value of the business because the revenue is not what is really not. The revenue stream is not really yours.
So you have, you really, really have to take your time.
And I put the proverbial cart before the horse here, because this whole conversation happens before we make an offer, not after.
Because this, I've learned this wasn't always the way we did it, but after being barons, you learned.
So we've now used this as a way to assess the risk profile and the value and the valuation of the company.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: As they say, you know, you learn more from your mistakes than your successes. Right. So.
[00:31:19] Speaker C: Oh, for sure.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: Sometimes they're hard lessons, but they're well learned in that way, for sure.
So this just tells us that, you know, it's. It's not good to rush the judgment with new team members. So what does your onboarding process look like when you complete an acquisition?
And how do you get the test to get a feel for the culture fit over time?
[00:31:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, so that, that ties into the last question. So in, in that conversation that I was saying that you have with, with that seller, you might find a champion there, but you might, you might not. And, and you have, you have to kind of be clear about that. No, no matter who you find, usually it's, It's. And I know this is counterintuitive, it's actually easier and more efficient to, to hire from scratch because the people that you hire from scratch go through Your own onboarding and the people that were hired have not gone even though you think they're so well qualified because they may have worked there for maybe five or ten or more more years.
They haven't gone through your training, your onboarding and maybe they just spiritually or they're just not on the same page with you. So, so that's why we put those, those we look candidates if you will, through our own onboarding, even still.
And, and now. So. Okay, so what does that look like?
We, we start with your basic pre screen questions, you know, like the basics. So whatever the position is, is going to have some basic requirements and they have to meet the prescreen, the pre screen questions before anything gets off the ground. And once the pre screen questions are met, then they will do a phone interview.
And the phone interview is usually about a 15 minute call to see if they're going in the right direction.
And then if that goes well, then they meet with our vice president who will do a very in depth interview.
If he feels it's right now, if they've gotten this far, they're pretty close to, you know, getting, getting hired. If he feels they're, they're right then I'll meet with them myself.
I meet with every single person that we, that we hire myself and then it's not over yet. At that point they do anywhere between a two and a four hour on the job interview where they'll come in and they'll spend a few hours with the team and the team will determine whether they are going. They're a good fit for being in the role because you can have someone that meets all the criteria and then when they get into the actual environment, it's just not right for them and this kind of teases that out.
After that they go through a three month probationary period where we monitor accountability, timeliness, willingness to learn, growth and if everything goes well then they're officially part of the team.
But we ask one of the hallmarks and the keys to it.
And I can go into this if you want, but if you want to not get too detailed, we don't have to. But I, I can even tell you some of the, like an example, a couple of questions that we ask. I mean we, we are very, very particular about character. More so than skill.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: Yes, I could understand it. So, so give us give the audience a couple examples of, of those, you know, kind of off topic questions that reveal character for you.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
Two of my favorites are tell me two things that you like about your current position and Two things that you don't like about your current position or if they're not working, maybe two things that you liked about your last position and two things that you don't like about your last position.
Listen carefully. They're going to discuss most likely environmental topics or management topics or interpersonal like, like other employee like team environment type things and you're going to find out what drives them, what naturally they feel good about and what they just don't like. You can take that comparison, compare it to your culture and you're going to know if this is a fit or not.
Nothing to do with skill.
This is about that human being. Are they going to work? You get. Yeah, that, that's one.
Another one that I, that I like is two or three things that you consider yourself strong at and two or three things that you consider yourself weak at.
Oh my goodness, this is so revealing. One of my favorites, they, you're basically tempting the candidate to answer you strategically as opposed to honestly.
And if they cave and answer you strategically, it's a red flag on character.
So you're, you're going to find out you're giving them enough slack to tie themselves up into a complete knot.
And, and it's so open ended. So a lot of people will forget to answer the weakness part of it and only answer the strengths or the, or the weaknesses will be like strengths in disguise. Like I'm totally OCD about detail and I'm told all the time that I'm too detail oriented. Things like that you have to look for.
I love that question because I believe that character can't be taught. Skills can be taught.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think that is very, very true and we find that ourselves.
One of the questions that I like is a very basic one.
What makes you mad?
[00:37:49] Speaker C: That's a great question.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: You know. Thanks.
It just, it's so simple a question, but it reveals so much about how a person thinks and what they think about and what they think is important. Right.
So it's just, it's one that I really love to use and you know, it is a revealer for sure. Yeah.
Anyway, no, those are, those are, those.
[00:38:17] Speaker C: Are two of my favorites and I, I just can't emphasize enough. I love yours. I really, I really like that it's so simple and because it gives a lot of leeway, right.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: It's, it's innocuous enough that they don't really see it coming and so they're more likely to open up and you know, you get to find out a little bit more about who that person is inside, not just like you said, skills you could teach to a point. I mean, you know, you got to have someone that has the capacity to learn and grow, but you can't really teach character and ideals. You know, that's just if you're, if you don't come with that background, it doesn't matter what you do as an employer, it's not going to cut it.
But it also sounds like in the process, you give the existing team an opportunity to feel out the candidates and you know, like you said, they may make it all the way to the vp. The VP thinks, man, this is going to be a great addition. You, you do this two, three hour, let's call it shadowing, introduction, get to know they get to see the company a little bit. The company all gets to see the person a little bit.
And it sounds like all those people that come in contact with that candidate have an opportunity to say good fit, not a good fit. And so it sounds like their feedback is more important than some of the, the initial assessment that you have. Yes.
[00:40:00] Speaker C: Why, I don't mean, I don't mean to, to be harsh or rude by this, but why, why wouldn't it be? Right, so those are the people that I owe it to.
They're the people that, that are at the front lines for us every day and working hard for us, and they're, they're in line with our initiatives and they're, they, their hearts are in it and they, I owe it to them to make sure that I bring someone on that's going to support them and take care of, you know, their own role, whatever that is, when, when our team goes above and beyond. So it has to be that way, right?
[00:40:40] Speaker B: Well, you know, to you and me, I would agree it has to be that way, but I don't think everybody necessarily always feels that way. I think that as a manager, as an owner, to me, I've learned that I'm happiest when I'm not the smartest person in the room. Right. You want to build a team of people that are better than you, that elevate you, right? Not, not that are less than you, because that's how your business grows and thrives. Right? So some people might be reluctant and say, hey, you know, I'm the final say, I'm the boss, I get to decide. But if you're not listening to what your people are telling you, you're, you're really missing the boat. So, yes, it sounds simple, it sounds pretty basic, but sometimes you got to Remind people how critically important that is.
[00:41:36] Speaker C: Sure. For sure.
Look, I, I don't, I'm not going to judge anyone, you know, for the way that they do what they do. You could be very successful in a lot of different ways. That, that just won't ever be my style.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: So tell us about the, the onboarding process itself. Once you've made the decision to make an offer and they start day one or is there anything that you require of them prior to day one? Let's talk about the, the what they.
What that 90 day process or that 90 day period looks like.
[00:42:12] Speaker C: The. So the probationary period is, is really just to see.
We went through all of our tests and everything seems to be great.
So now we're going through a dress rehearsal. Right.
So we're doing the job day to day.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Our.
[00:42:34] Speaker C: Are they coming to work, willing to learn? Are are they list. Are they like you can listen but are you really there listening and, and trying.
Are you getting the same questions or different questions? That's a key thing we monitor.
So if you get the same question twice, that's not a big deal. But if you get the same question three, four or five times, there's something wrong in the learning process and you're probably going to have hiccups along the way.
Is.
Is punctuality an issue?
We are big in accountability because we don't. The reason is that we won't ever rule with an iron fist and we don't make a big deal about anybody that makes any mistake. We, we just expect everybody to own it, deal with it and move on.
And if you're not willing or able to do that, it's not going to work because it's not fair. The other team members, things like that we look, we look at and you know, it's, it. It just has to overall that the team has to feel like this is, this is a good fit. We had one situation where during the probationary period a candidate said to our, at the time she was our, our central location manager.
She said why did you set the bar so high?
That was a red flag for everybody.
So it first of all you alienated someone who, who's an overachiever and, and who holds the bar and who is your direct report by the way.
[00:44:24] Speaker B: So.
[00:44:26] Speaker C: And made for you kind of offended her in a way. But also you showed me that you want to do the minimum.
You, you don't want to go the extra mile.
So that, that kind of thing like that's someone that had the skill that went through the process that was hired and, and brought on. But during her, her probationary period that happened and we, we, I don't want to discuss anything more about it, but.
[00:44:57] Speaker B: No, no, I, I, I totally understand getting people that are willing and, and you know, we could have a dozen podcasts about people and processes and, and you know, just work ethic and selecting candidates.
That's not for discussion today. But certainly understanding the team that comes with the potential acquisition is just as important, if not more important than the financial aspect. Right. You know, you got to know what baggage you're taking on, what strengths, what weaknesses and who you're going to keep and who you're not. You know, for sure.
[00:45:42] Speaker C: Yes. Well said, Mike.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: Thanks.
Now I will say, I want to take a second here to say, you know, you've, you've commented several times. Great question. I just want to tell you and the audience, I'm the host, I add to the conversation. But most of the questions are generated by my producer Rachel from MBNA staff.
So she's the one that you should be every time you say great question, please say great question Rachel, because she deserves credit for making this, helping make this podcast the quality product that it is. So thanks Rachel. Thanks Anthony for, for recognizing the quality of the product that we're to trying, trying to put out here.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: So Rachel, awesome job.
[00:46:31] Speaker B: It, it was, she really is doing, doing a bang up job for she got me a brand new microphone. All kind of really cool stuff. So it's, it's very, very nice.
So in, in your, in your article you talk about the importance of clear, transparent standards and protocols. So share a few example of those and maybe what's worked well that you brought when you brought the new locations in. But also more importantly, maybe some that didn't work so well because you know, you tend to learn more from your mistakes than your successes. Right. So let's talk about both sides of that.
[00:47:07] Speaker C: Sure. Okay.
So when we first acquired Spring Valley, we, we noticed that they had a different, a different way of running their company.
But it was successful and it worked for them.
So we felt like if we're going to keep the employees that were there worked great.
We had a great rapport. They stayed on. We're actually still friends with them and we kept the processes the same.
So Travis had one set of processes, Brave Valley had another set of processes.
And then when we opened up two more locations, we had this conundrum.
We which process were we going to adopt in each location?
So we, we started to think about the consistency of the processes. It Was getting to be too much to have all of these different management styles at every location.
And they were coming back to bite us, bite us in the way. So how you might. Might ask and it's cross coverage as an issue.
How is pricing done here versus there?
How, how do you handle the paperwork? How do you handle certain questions where you answer the phone? How do you just deal with certain nuance?
And my. Our vice president now Alan, who who came came on to the. We think he was working part time as more like help and consulting.
2014, 15, 16 and then he came on full time in 2017.
He had a lot of management experience. He managed sales teams and was director of sales at the wine enthusiast companies.
So wine like they built wine cellars and things like that.
And he, so he had, he had that type of experience that I don't have and he was very engaging and he saw that and said no, no, no, this, this has to be standardized.
So so he, he and I worked together.
I kind of pointed out what I liked and didn't like and then he looked through it and then teased out what needed to be done. And I'm not a micromanager. I don't like to.
It doesn't need to be what I say, what I think the person that's doing it needs to know how it should be done.
[00:49:48] Speaker B: It works. The works.
[00:49:49] Speaker C: Yeah. And if they're not qualified to do it, then they shouldn't be doing it. So I mean, so anyway, so he standardized the process for all locations. Okay, so what works? What doesn't work?
The way we answer the phones, the way we cross cover the phones, the messages, the time that we. It takes to return the calls. All of those policies and procedures are standardized. The hold, the hold message, that interaction is all part of the customer experience. This way the, the customer experience is consistent across all locations.
So now take the. The time that it takes to. From the time you place the order to the time you get a drawing. From the time you get a drawing to the time that the monuments produced. All that standardized. All the draftsperson that does every drawing for every location standardized.
The. The roses. You know, I know that's a big part of the business is what the rose looks like. All the roses standardized across all locations. The way the letters are going to pop. Standardized. Like you know, what type of treatment goes in the lettering. All of that need. The quality control standards are all the same.
Now one thing that we've had a lot of hiccups with is what we, what we call an audit. It's where every week we do an audit of all of our orders, inscriptions, monuments, restorations, everything. And we know, we make sure where everything is at and we check to see if it's been in that phase for too long.
And then we kind of get it moving. We see why it could be stuck and, you know, whatever. It's a minimum of one time a week, sometimes more.
When you acquire a new location, at least in my experience, they have their own way of doing that. Some don't do it at all. They just wait when it's done done.
We, we like to be proactive on that. That's been the hardest thing to get people who don't do to adopt because it's a lot, lot of time, it's labor intensive. You're spending several hours a week going through every single line item and finding out where it is and making sure it's, it's moved out. Now, I know there are software like stonespot and other software products that, that do this. Our team just likes doing it manually. We just use Excel. But however you do it, it has to be done, in my opinion, proactively, at least once a week. That's been very difficult to carry out with new people that had been in the business already. But someone coming on for the first time just sees that as a regular practice and just goes along with it.
It's. It's part of the deal.
See, think if I that hours, hours of operation, that could be an area where, where we would change a little bit from one location based on volume and traffic in that area. We might have longer hours in one location, shorter hours in another. But we try to keep everything as consistent as possible because the team sees everything as equal then. So everybody's participating with the same rules, everybody's playing with the same roles. So it creates a more of a team feel than when you have, this person doesn't have to do this, but this person does. That's kind of not cool.
And then. And then cross coverage is much easier. Right. Because if the standards and practices are the same in one location, someone could just jump in and take over there. And then if you lose someone, if they retire, if they, if they leave or whatever it is, you make a change, it's easy to cover that office because it's the same the others. So for those reasons, we like to standardize as much as possible.
[00:53:39] Speaker B: Well, we've covered a lot of ground before we close, I just want to circle back so that the audience has a little bit better idea of who it is they've been listening to.
So you started in 98. You know, aside from all the family background, going back to Naples and so on, I'm not minimizing that. I'm just saying from 98 to 25, you started with how many locations, how many employees, and where are you at today?
[00:54:11] Speaker C: So we, in 98, we started with Travis and now we just closed on our sixth location and we're looking at two more. I can't discuss those just yet because we're still in negotiation.
Where we are looking at opening yet another in addition to the two that we're considering acquiring just depends on what seems to be the right, the best opportunity to invest in. Because there comes a point, at least in my opinion, where you have to look at the ROI on the energy. Not just the monetary resources, but the energy.
I'm not getting any younger and I want to know that the time that I put into something is going to be worth it and to make sense.
So, so that's, that's kind of where we're, we're at now.
Some of the things I, I'd encourage you to consider, or I'd encourage a listener to consider are whether you want to purchase or lease the land on which that business operates and how that, how that's going to serve you later. When, when you go to do whatever it is that you want to do, when you have a succession plan, maybe it's leaving it to your children, maybe it's retiring, maybe it's selling me. I don't know. Whatever, whatever your plan is. But think about that as part of your, your future.
And also think about as you bring on future companies, what, what does that model look like? And how is it going to change the intercompany dynamics of the existing team?
And your life, your life as a whole, your personal life, your business life, how. What type of impact is it going to have on you? Is that really the right fit for you? It's something just to think about.
[00:56:09] Speaker B: So how many employees currently?
[00:56:12] Speaker C: We're depending on the season and.
Well, and the number of loca. I mean, because right now we're onboarding for two locations, so we're probably hovering around 15. We, we. We run pretty lean.
We, we don't have a full shop. We, we do, we do our own setting and we do all of our own front end, some of our own designing, but we don't run our own shop. We partner with someone who is willing to do our work our way, which I like to say is proprietary. It's a certain technique that we like and they produce our work our way, and that works for us.
My uncles do their own manufacturing and always have. I grew up doing that. I know how manufacturing is done. I in that shop for years. But I know the intricacies and I know the time it takes. And that's just not what I think is right for us.
[00:57:25] Speaker B: All right, so what would you say to someone who's thinking about buying their first business? Any lessons you learned or just no matter what, don't do this.
What advice do you have for the person that's looking to make their first acquisition?
[00:57:43] Speaker C: Read the article.
Open up NB News and read the article.
I'm not trying to be funny, but if I had known half of the things in that article that back then, that I know now, I wouldn't have made some of the mistakes that I made there. There are some things in there where, you know. Like for example, one of the things I, I put in, in the article was sometimes people will, sellers will say on the books we're doing this amount of revenue, but it's really 30, 40, 50% more because all that's cash and I don't report it.
Walk away. Just, just walk away.
That's, that's a game that you don't want to play in that, that type of thing is something that's a red flag.
How do you quantify that? How do you prove that? And how do you know you're ever going to see that? And then, and then you're getting mixed up into something that's just not, not.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: And it leads to a whole host of other, other questions. Right, exactly. Yes, I understand completely.
[00:58:59] Speaker C: Yeah. But other, other things. I, I, I, I want to, I don't want to let this go without, without saying a couple of things that have helped me.
One is my local organization.
There, there aren't that many local ones anymore. There used to be metropolitan New York, we were part of that. There was Westchester county, we were part of that. Now there's New York State. We are part of that. I'm on the board of New York State, the national organization, your mbna.
I've learned more by going to these events and just hearing what people think and just talking about my challenges with other professionals.
What better resource is there than that? You can hire a consultant, but they don't have contextual experience.
So, so if you go to these events and you, and you surround yourself with people where they already are, they're already at where you want to go. If I'm not saying it right, but they've already gone through what you've been through. They're already there. Go gravitate to them, ask them. They will likely want to help you. And just to talk to you, I know I'm willing to help anyone that wants, wants advice and, and I was helped along the way. I, I met some of the most, some of the most influential people in, in my advice circle this way, you know, at these events. So make sure you, you're not only a member, but go to the events, participate, engage with other people, have a conversation, just have lunch with someone or coffee or whatever, whatever your thing is.
That's, I can't stress that enough. It's, that's so important.
[01:00:45] Speaker B: It really is. And I think I thank you for bringing that up because that has also been my experience.
I have never sat down in one of those situations and asked a fellow member a question about, about this or that and have them say, yeah, I'm not sharing that there. We're all willing to teach and share because we were taught by somebody, right? We didn't come here with all this knowledge in our head. We got it from those that came before us. And the best place to get that knowledge and to keep that knowledge moving and, and, and just accessible is through organizations like MBNA or your regional association. So, you know, I thank you for that. Plug.
I can't stress enough how membership in MBNA has helped me personally and not just in my company, but in my personal development as well.
So if you're. But it's not just being a member, it's being a participating member that makes the difference. And, and you said it for sure.
So I think we're, we're actually, we need to wrap here.
So, Anthony, I want to thank you so much for joining us today and sharing with our audience.
The August Human Resource issue of MB News has an article about lessons learned from business acquisitions and several articles with Tim templates for standard operating procedures, employee handbooks, and more.
I encourage you to read this issue and if you have a topic you'd like to have covered in a future podcast, please let us know. For MB and A, I'm Michael Johns. Thanks for taking time out of your day to listen. If you found this worthwhile, and I hope you did, please take a minute and share the link with a friend for comments and feedback. We'd love to hear from you. Please drop a note to infoonumentbuilders.org have a great rest of your day.
[01:02:55] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, Mike. Appreciate it.
