Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Monument Matters, a podcast produced by the Monument Builders of North America for all things memorialization.
Each episode is an extension of our monthly magazine, MB News. Monument Matters invites everyone to listen and share. You'll find all of the episodes on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to MB&A's Monument Matters, a podcast produced by the Monument Builders of North America for all things monumental. I'm your host, Mike Johns, CMAICA from the Johns Carabelli Company Cimarano Monuments and Flowers in Cleveland, Ohio. I'm also a past president of the Monument Builders of North America.
Today we'll be speaking with Michael George and Sarah Scott from AMG Insurance.
Michael is her president and has been in the insurance business since 1982. Sarah Scott has been in the insurance industry for 15 years. She's a graduate of Kelly School of Business at iupui. See that? Sometimes fast. I hear you.
AMJ Insurance provides insurance for associations and their members throughout the country. Good morning Michael and Sarah. Welcome to our podcast.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Morning.
[00:01:18] Speaker C: Morning.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Every monument company, from two person mom and pop shops to larger firms face different but similar risks. When you talk with monument builders, what are the most common blind spots you see in their insurance coverage and why do those gaps matter?
[00:01:34] Speaker C: As you stated, every risk is different. But the most common gaps in the insurance that we see is not carrying insurance for any professional exposure that you might have or in not carrying a high enough liability limit. Your business is not only your legacy, but it's also your livelihood. One claim without enough insurance to pay for it can only bankrupt the business and could also bankrupt your personally depending on how the business is set up. So these limits include auto and general liability. The other area where we're seeing gaps are key man insurance.
For example, you have one key person in your business and if something were to happen to that person, you would have to hire another person to replace that person.
In a lot of business we see that where there's one person that really is doing everything they can to keep that business going and the business would be lost without that person. Keyman insurance would replace that person and, you know, give you the financial ability to do that, to help run because they may have contacts, things like that, but basically they keep the business going.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: So the article highlights everything from general liability to cyber insurance.
For someone who feels overwhelmed, where should a monument builder start when trying to figure out the right mix of coverage or coverage limits?
[00:02:59] Speaker A: That's a great question, Mike. Honestly, insurance can be a little bit confusing and it's a little bit more challenging than it has been in the past. So. So even the smallest operations and businesses have had cyber attacks. So that's why we find it to be very important to conduct a full insurance review. And we present all of the insurance options to you so that you can make an informed decision about all the risks that you might be facing, as well as the costs associated with protecting you from those risks. We certainly want you to have enough insurance, but we don't want you to be insurance poor to where you're buying so much insurance that you're not left with enough money at the end of the month. So it's a happy balance.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Right. Okay, that makes sense. So the insurance that we're talking about providing to MB&A members through this member benefit is primarily liability insurance, is that correct?
[00:03:50] Speaker A: One of the many that we would recommend, yes.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: What other types of insurance would you be able to offer our members through this program?
[00:03:55] Speaker A: So, within the solutions that we can offer, it's liability, it's umbrella, it's auto, workers comp, cyber employment practices, liability, professional installation. We have a long list of recommended coverages that we think are pretty key to MBNA members.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: So you mentioned workers compensation insurance. That means that members that could. Could members take advantage of that alone? And would that put them in a larger pool or group than they might otherwise be a part of?
[00:04:29] Speaker A: So workers comp. They can either, if they're a smaller entity and it's really only the owner that's on the policy, they can get an exclusion from their state. But the moment that they hire an actual employee, by law, they have to carry workers comp. So we would be placing that workers comp coverage for that individual business and securing and protecting the business and their employees.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Okay, so that doesn't necessarily put them in. In part of a larger buying, correct?
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Nope. Everything for us is going to be based on the individual entity, the individual insured and their individual performances. What we can present and provide to MBNA as a group is the ability to get discounts or credits because of the larger group together collectively. But everyone is measured on their own.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Merit, at their own experience rating. Right. Basically.
So I'm going to sidestep just for a second because, you know, insurance is a big cost to small businesses today. Not just these types of insurance, but also healthcare insurance. Do you see a point in time where health insurance could be provided at the, I don't say the institutional level, but at the group level, where members of the MBNA could be. Could form a group that would cover multiple states where that health insurance might Be something that could be looked at or is that just out of the question at this point?
[00:05:57] Speaker C: There are programs that are like that. I don't know if this group could get big enough to obtain the numbers that would be feasible to get that. And it's fairly costly where you have to set up.
A few years ago there were some issues where some associations were doing this. They went bad. So there's a lot more regulations on the, on starting up group association. We do currently do offer a small group. You have to have a minimum of two employees depending on which state. You know, if you have a, if you have a spouse and the other spouse, sometimes that doesn't count as a second employee. Most, most of em it does. As long as we have two, we can have a small group plan. And then also depending on the state we have a program where it's level funded where at the end of the year if, if the funds aren't used that the employer does get some, some of their premium back. So there are some options out there at this moment. But as far as a group benefit where everybody's together, that's not there yet.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: Do you see that coming in the future or not so much.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: It kind of got shot down with the last legislation, but it looks like it might be able to come back again.
You know, healthcare is kind of a very political time bomb there.
Yeah, I think letting them loosen up on these, what they are called as partially self funded plans for associations loosen up there that gives us a little hope. And we have other groups that, oh, I mean they're getting, you know, 5 to 10 to $25,000 back on smaller, on smaller companies under 10.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Okay, well maybe there's opiate.
Stay tuned.
All right, so one of the, one of the coverages that I think gets overlooked a lot of times is installation coverage and a lot of, a lot of companies don't think about that, but I think it's.
So can you walk us through a scenario where installation coverage could save a builder from a costly situation?
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. One of the scenarios that we wanted to put together for the group was to talk about, you know, you're installing a granite upright monument that weighs several hundreds of pounds. So you've got the appropriate truck.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Boom.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Got it strapped, it's rigged, it's tagged and it's going into a level foundation. Right. So you've done everything that you were supposed to do, but as you're lowering the monument, one of the, one of the straps shifts a little bit and one of the corner chips off and it Puts a stress fracture on the backside of the monument, and now the stone is no longer structurally sound. Our insured did nothing wrong. Equipment didn't technically fail, but it was just an accident. Right? So immediately, you really can't complete that installation, or you shouldn't, because it's not perfect. It's not the way that the family was expecting that memorial to look. Right. So in theory, without installation coverage, Our insured would need to reorder the die or re. Sandblast or laser, engrave the design, Remake the decorative work, Return to the cemetery at a later time with a second installation. So depending on what state you're in, maybe, what, two to six thousand dollars in all of that from start to finish. So if we had had installation coverage, it would pay to replace it. It would pay to cover the engraving and the additional expenses for that, cover the labor and travel for the second installation and. And keep you on schedule and your cash flow where you thought it was going to be. Right. So it's got a lot of areas where that installation coverage can act. But we felt like this was a great example that everyone could probably visualize.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: It certainly is. I think that this is a critical area, Especially for those who are setting their own work and who would be setting larger pieces especially.
So at what point point does a monument or headstone become the actual property of the purchaser and leave our care custody in control, and how does that impact the insurance coverage?
[00:10:02] Speaker A: So it's going to depend on the point of sale and when it's been invoiced. So if the customer is technically paid for it, then it's a little bit in the gray. If it's still not been paid for and we're waiting for the payment, Then it's still in your care, custody and control. So that's something that we'll talk through with every monument builder as we engage with them to determine when do they transfer their goods, when do they lose possession of that product? To make sure that everyone's on the same page with who technically owns those goods.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: I think that's a. That's a critical area that I think many folks might overlook. And so when you have the opportunity to participate in this insurance assessment, that is certainly an area that you should talk about. Absolutely.
Thanks for that. So the association insurance program also offers an employee benefit program. Can you share how that program works.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: How it works with the members?
So we would like everyone to be a member of the association, but some of you may not be, when you come to court, to us, but after you Are we will definitely quote it as if it is a member benefit. And then you have the choice, whether you join or not, to get the advantages of the coverage.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: As an agency, we offer employee benefits, life insurance, home and auto and business insurance. So for that employee benefit, as Michael mentioned earlier, we just need a minimum of two employees. Depending on the state, it could be three, and we just need an employee census. And we can start quoting those benefit options for you. Whether it's a ppo, whether it's an hsa, high deductible plans, we can work with you and give you different options.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Okay. So are you. You're saying, if I understand that correctly, my employees can take advantage of insurance coverages that you offer for insurance that they might already have? Right, At a. At a discounted member rate?
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah. They could come to us individually for a life insurance plan. They could come to us for their personal home and auto. The owners could do the same. They, we are an extension of MBNA for any insurance needs that have any of the insureds or their employees might possibly need.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Interesting. All right, Well, I think that's another great way that MBNA is trying to find value for its members, trying to grow the member benefits program, affinity programs, however you want to refer to them, finding benefit for membership through mbna, whether it's your insurance, like we're talking about now, or other areas, MV&A is always looking for avenues to one, make membership more attractive and beneficial. And here's another one in the insurance offering. I think that's great.
So, Sarah, how can a company get started? Are we able to send your current coverage and request a quote? Or if someone's not a member, can they request a quote? What's the process? What can you.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Yep, Sarah, so typically what we like to do is start with your current policies. We'll do a complete insurance review, and if you've got a great solution and it's a great price, we'll tell you that we're not going to waste your time, we're not going to spin your wheels if you already have a great solution. But if we feel like there's more that could be done, then we'll take that current insurance, we'll pair that with our application and put together a tailored solution that meets your needs. And then like we mentioned before, it is a member benefit. So if you're not currently a member, we can still quote for you and release our solution to you. And then if you want to capitalize on our quotes, then, you know, you can join the MBA program.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Okay, so what information from the policy do I need to send? Do I need to send you a whole 380 page policies, the declarations page? What, what exactly? How do we. What's the first piece of information that I.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: The deck pages for each policy is a great place to start. It'll tell us what your limits are, it'll tell us your expiration dates, it'll tell us what you're currently paying. But there could be some stuff embedded in the policy that we might ask questions about. So don't worry about sending us that 300 page document. We can start with just the deck pages and then kind of weed through that additional information which is typically on our application. Like what are your sales? Do you guys own any booms or trucks? Or do you always do that installation subbed out things of that nature? We'll ask all those questions and talk through things like the installation like, you know, workers comp and are the owners included or excluded on the workers comp? We've got some pretty specific questions to make sure that we're putting together the.
[00:14:38] Speaker C: Best solution for you, especially on the install side. You know, if you know, if you're in a monument area or something, doing something and you damage somebody else's monument that's been there for 100 years, just want to see how your policy reads so that we do give you coverage for that. Because I've seen some where they don't cover the once it's in your care cost control where they're not going to cover any other damages. So that's, I think, an area where we want to make sure that you're covered.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Sure.
There's a lot of ins and outs. There's a lot of things that the average monument builder really doesn't know about insurance. And that's why we, that's why the association partners with experts and allows our members to get the advice of those experts. Because we know Monty lives, we don't know insurance. So again, another great member benefit provided to you by MBNA Fab, Michael and Sarah, we're coming close to the end of the podcast, I think, but I just want to make sure there isn't anything else that you folks want to touch on or remind people.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Last thought just that it's usually best for us to quote around your current effective date. If you have a workers comp policy currently, if you're a large enough account and you know about an experienced mod, we, we don't want to tinker with that, if you will, but if you want us to have a conversation off of your effective date. We absolutely can, but we'll let you know what we think is best if you should stick with that date or if we should look at moving you earlier or later.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: So is it, is it true that changing or getting new quotations that the actual quotation may change depending on how it relates to your renewal date?
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Yep.
Two reasons Carriers will do price changes a couple times a year. Every state will tell carriers when they can and cannot make rate changes. So carriers will, you know, maybe if we quote for a 1. 1, we might be using the old rates, but if we quote for a 4. 1, their new rates might be pushed out. Right. So there's that. That piece of it. But then also if you are a large enough account and your workers comp has an experience mod, if you've had some claims frequency, you do not want to ever move off that effective date because you will keep and hold some of those claims for a year longer than you should.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Okay, so it sounds like there's a lot of nuances to insurance. Again, I can't stress enough that deal with a professional, deal with an expert, deal with someone that MBNA has put their faith in. Absolutely. So it is about time to put another podcast in the book, so to speak. So unless Sarah or Michael, you have any last comments you want to make.
Okay then I want to say thank you to Michael George and Sarah Scott from A AMG Insurance and you folks out in cyberland who've been listening. In December, issue of ME News has an article about this new MBNA member benefit. Thank you. As we wrap up the Monument Matters podcast, I want to share a sincere thank you. What began as an experiment has turned into something truly meaningful. And that's because of all of you. To our guests, not just from today, but all guests from Season one, thank you for sharing your knowledge and stories. To our listeners. Thank you for logging in and supporting the show. As to and to the MVNA leadership, thank you for believing in improving the professionalism of the mining and industry through new and exciting vehicles like the Mining podcast. I'm excited to announce that my contract has been renewed and season two is on its way with more conversations, insights and voices from across the monument industry. And unlike other streaming services, you won't have to wait months for its release.
So thank you for listening to MBNA. Monument Matters MBNA invites you to stay connected through Facebook and LinkedIn or visit www.too many w monumentbuilders.org for upcoming events and webinars for MBNA on Mike Johns thank you for taking time out of your day to listen. If you found this worthwhile, please take a minute and share the link with a friend friend for comments and feedback. We'd love to hear from you. Please drop a Note to info miningbuilders.org we can't wait to share what's next. Have a great day.
