[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome to MBNA's Monument Matters, a podcast produced by the Monument Builders of North America for all things monumental.
MBNA is a 119-year-old association whose mission is to define and promote memorialization in a viable, innovative and diversified way for its members members and to enhance the awareness of memorialization by the general public and the entire remembrance industry.
In that spirit of promoting memorialization, the MBNA Marketing Committee is providing these podcasts as an extension of our monthly magazine, MB News.
Each podcast episode features a discussion related to a magazine theme.
Monument Matters podcasts invite everyone to listen and share.
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I'm your host, Mike Johns, CM, AICA from the Johns Caravelli Company Cimorano Monuments and Flowers in Cleveland, Ohio. I'm also a past president of the Monument Builders of North America. Today I'm Speaking with Scott McLaughlin, executive director of the Vermont Granite Museum. The Vermont Granite Museum was founded by a coalition of over 300 Central Vermont citizens in 1994 as a way to preserve the stories and memories of their community's granite industry.
Welcome, Scott.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Congratulations on the museum's 30th anniversary. I'm looking forward to learning more about your mission to preserve, honor and showcase Vermont's granite heritage and industry.
So having said that, what led to the creation of the Vermont granite Museum some 30 years ago?
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Well, at a community meeting at the Barry Opera House, they came together to try to solve some of the issues that they saw was happening within the community.
Most of the people in attendance were seniors, and they'd had a long experience living in Central Vermont, and they recognized changes during that time.
One of those changes was a recognition of the significance of the granite industry and the development of Central Vermont Vermont. So there was an educational piece that was lacking. School children that were coming out of local K12 programs didn't understand the role that the granite industry, both companies and people, had played.
And so they wanted to find some way in which to instill that within the youth, within the community.
The second thing they identified was a a separation amongst the community.
It wasn't as cohesive as it once was. During the childhood of the attendees when they were kids, there were still various social organizations that were linked to the heritage of these immigrants who came to create the industry during the period of the 1880s through the 1950s.
And so you didn't have the Spanish Club or the Italian Athletic Club, the Swedish Athletic Club, all these organizations that had picnics in the summer gatherings and that was gone.
And so they were trying to figure out, how do we recreate this community connection that may be linked to the heritage, but ultimately cross boundaries. In many cases, like the baseball team sponsored by the different granite companies and the social organizations, they disappeared decades earlier.
Another piece that was lacking within the community was the economic driver.
The granite industry had consolidated the previous two decades, and there were fewer companies, fewer people working in the industry.
And as a result, it affected the damage.
It wasn't as vibrant as it was during the childhood of the attendees. And so they wanted to see if there was a way to create some sort of economic driver that could improve the downtown, bring life to it once again.
And the conclusion at the end of the meeting was that a granite museum or heritage museum was something that could do everything that they wanted. And. And as a result, there were committees formed, and they started seeking out what kind of building would house the institution.
And eventually, In May, actually May 18th of 1995, the Vermont Granite Museum was founded.
It became a nonprofit organization, and they seeked out the building which I'm sitting in today, which is the Jones Brothers Granite plant, built in 1895.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: Wow. I did not realize that. The timing of that building, and I'll circle back to that in a second.
But also what I hear you talking about is the social aspect of community and the industry.
And that's a theme that recurs for me through mbna. You know, people often say, why be a member?
There's so many positive things that come out of being a member of mbna, but the one that's so difficult to put a handle on or a dollar amount on is the social aspect. Right? The connections, the relationships, the mentoring.
Just the knowledge base that you get a glimpse of and you get connected to by being a member.
So I just wanted to comment on that. So what kind of support did you receive from volunteers and members of the granite industry to get the. To get the museum off the ground and keep it running?
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Well, this granite plant is 28,000 square feet. It was in disrepair. It was last used as a manufacturing facility in 1976.
So it had sat largely vacant for two decades. With the exception of being used for storage, no repairs to speak of were done to it.
So they ended up having to raise about $4.5 million in order to take and purchase the property and then conduct the restoration.
And as a result, they seek the support of not just the granite industry, but the community at large across the state. Vermont's three stones include it's slate, it's Marble, and it's granite.
And so they tap the state legislature, they tapped the national park service, and also local families that recognize that they really are here only because of the fact that their great grandparents came to work in the granite industry. And so they owed a lot to them.
Local companies provided both labor as well as materials and funding, and they continue to do so to the present.
And it included not just the local granite companies, but also monument dealers all across the nation.
They recognize also that they owe an homage to Vermont, because in many cases, that's where their family came from originally, before they set up their memorial dealerships in the midwest, mid Atlantic, or northeast.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: So, as you say, the museum's located in that unique and historically significant building, the Jones brothers granite shed. That name rings a bell for me because that's where our company had the Rockefeller obelisk fabricated right around the turn of the century. I didn't realize that that building was only about 10 or 12 years old when that was done. That piece was cut from the largest single piece of granite ever quarried in North America for monumental purposes. Its raw weight coming out of the quarry was over103.3 tons.
So tell me a little bit more about that building and its history, if you can.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: So Jones brothers, the three individuals that started the company, began in the 1880s, and they would be called today first adopters. Many of the technologies and processes that they were willing to adopt were new and in some cases, not really tested, proven to be efficient.
And Jones brothers willing to take risk, including the risk of building a long shed.
The longshed design originally comes from Scotland.
It had been used in other places within North America. During the late 1870s, early 1880s, there'd only been two other buildings constructed like it here in Vermont.
And they the effort to reach out to the experts other stone centers throughout Europe, especially Aberdeen, Scotland, to acquire polishers and cutting machines. And they got the exclusive rights to sell some of those machines here in North America Once they recognize the significance that they would have on the granite industry as it moved forward.
The Jones brothers continue to expand on this plant. I'm, like I said, in a building that's 28,000 square feet, it's only a small fraction of the original plant.
The height during the 1920s, it was 110,000 square feet of shop floor, which rivals even modern manufacturing facilities in the granite industry.
And they were willing to adopt all sorts of new product lines that other companies would not.
The press rolls and also the corrugated rollers or conching machines for the chocolate industry.
And every time they had an opportunity, they'd take advantage of it. The unfortunate part is, like with any business, when you hand it from father to son to grandson, sometimes there's not the passion.
And that's what happened with this family. It just didn't have the sustaining power to go through the generations and eventually would be closed in 1976.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: So it's interesting to hear it wasn't just the Italians that were so influential in the industry, learning about the Scots and the Germans and. And others who have made their mark early on and continue to do so. That's. That's pretty amazing.
So what's. What's a typical day like at the museum?
[00:11:26] Speaker A: So we're open year round, but to the public to see the exhibit spaces. We're open only May 1st through October 31st.
But there are people actively working on projects in the building, you know, six days a week, year round.
We have a core of about 50 volunteers.
I've been the only employee here since 2014, and at that time, it was an empty building with a dirt floor, no exhibits, no collections. And it's thanks to community support and especially the granite industry here in Vermont to help me to acquire collections and start to learn more about the history of the immigrants that came to work in the industry and the roles that they played.
And so we still are spending time collecting, researching, writing exhibits, creating public programming.
Every week we work with bus tour companies in order to provide an entertainment and educational opportunity for tourists from around the world.
We're working on. Right today, we have the Central Rock Career Center. Kids working on electrical outlets and lighting, constantly making improvements to this space, making it more inviting to a wide audience.
And so every day is different for me. And what I see is the community support in creating this institution. And I'm proud.
Every day I turn around as I leave the door and see all the progress we've made just in the few hours we were there in that one day. And over the last 10 years, we've gone from a facility that was bare bones to one that is packed. Packed with life and history and collections that we could have 20 graduate students working on theses and dissertations in order to investigate the history of the granite industry, not just here in Vermont, but it affected the entire industry globally.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Amazing.
So no longer a dirt floor.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: No longer a dirt floor for handicapped accessibility has got to have concrete.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Got it. I mean, you know, they were all dirt floors.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: And many still are in. In certain areas because it was just.
You used the ground as a method of flipping Stone and turning and so on. It just was part of the, part of the landscape.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: And no one wants to stand on a concrete floor for very long. It's really harmful to your feet.
For sculptors, they can stand on their dirt floor and not have the same problems of aching legs.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it's those things, you know, you don't think about anymore. But that was commonplace. That was, you know, just part of the mindset.
So it sounds like you've been really becoming more and more successful, but I'm sure there's challenges. So what are some of the challenges that you're facing today? Way.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: Well, like any nonprofit, the big challenge is always looking for the funding to remain sustainable.
And, you know, we've grown from having 450 visitors in 2014 when we didn't have anything to see except for the building. And that's amazing in itself, but, you know, we've reached a peak of trying to get close to 10,000 visitors a year.
But the cost of operations, a large facility like this, a historic structure which is constantly in need of assistance and maintaining it, protecting it from the weather, is costly.
And running our programming and continuing to expand on our exhibits is also costly. And trying to also increase the number of full time employees here would be really beneficial. On the last 10 years, I've aged and I've got a lot more gray hair, and I'm hoping that we can continue to do that.
The grant funding is just not there like it used to be.
And we've unfortunately aged as an industry and we've been experiencing greater consolidation, especially here in the state of Vermont.
And so trying to tap just the granite industry is not sustainable.
They can't do it all alone and we can't ask them to do that. This is a community museum and we need to ask the community. And the community needs to grow beyond who we've been asking previously.
And so now we've extended the arms out to try to bring in all those memorial dealers, have a connection today and in the past to the state of Vermont, the families that have now spread across the nation, who have their roots within Vermont's granite industry.
We need your help. We need your help to take and keep the momentum that we've had over the last 11 years that I've been here and continue to make sure that we have a space that can continue to train the next generation in the industry with we have a stone art school.
We need to continue to grow that, to support designers and sculptors who are aging out. We have machines that can do many of the other functions, but the design and the sculptures.
That's something that really requires the personal touch. Working with the clients and trying to figure out what is it that's going to suit their needs and interests and create a peace that ultimately will stand the test of time.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: I think that over the last several years, aging out has become greater and greater concern. But over the last, the short term, I've seen a shift.
The last national convention in Cleveland, there was many comments made that the people walking on the floor and participating in the convention are getting younger for the first time in a long time. And I see that interest in the craft of our industry.
The how do I do this?
The can I work stone on my own or not necessarily on my own, but for myself instead of just relying on manufacturers and so on, I think is more of a part of our business than it ever has been in, in recent years. So I'm encouraged by what I see as that significant shift.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: We certainly need to keep that trend going.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Especially in the area of sculptors.
Yes, our sculptors here in Barrie, we have roughly a dozen of them who are active. Our oldest is Giuliano cecconelli senior. He's 81 years old. He still works 40 hour work weeks creating pieces that marvel folks who see it.
And he's producing probably some of the best work he has done since he was a professional, which began at age 16.
And our youngest sculptors, however, are in their late 30s and early mid-40s.
And we've got this gap. We need to fill that before 70 and 60 year olds retire and move away and no longer have the opportunity to train this next generation.
Which we need to have those that have all this knowledge that they gain through both witnessing for themselves and working besides the masters who have been here since the 1880s, working in Vermont, again, passing that knowledge from one generation to the next, we can't see that discontinue.
Otherwise where are we going to turn to?
[00:20:05] Speaker B: That's. That's for sure. You know, I'm no sculptor, but I do carve a mean raised or raised round letter learned from my dad and I'm currently passing that on to my son. So I, I do agree. We definitely need more of that. So what's.
Is the, is the museum involved in trying to encourage the youth to get involved? Are there efforts at the manufacturing level? What's. What's going on to bridge that gap?
[00:20:34] Speaker A: We've been attempting to get the stone art school partnered with other organizations.
We have partnered with Norwich University and Norwich University has a bachelor's in the design arts.
And it's a four year program. Students will learn how to use on both technology, but also learning how to use traditional methods in working stone.
And so we've also tried to work with the Central Vermont Career center.
And the program is on hiatus at the moment. We ran it for a couple of years.
The problem is trying to recruit students.
That's been a difficult aspect of the process.
We've introduced it to Boy Scout groups. We have a merit badge in sculpture at the museum.
Any way we can try to tap into the community so they recognize that those with artistic skill and ability, this is a potential career path for them. And it doesn't necessarily have to involve going to college.
It just means you have to take and put the time and energy in working as an apprentice underneath a master.
And in time, you too will become proficient to become a master carver and then eventually master sculptor.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Well, I hope those efforts continue and I hope that you start to see some real success there.
So I.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: So do I.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Recently the museum sent out a special appeal for support due to cuts in funding from federal sources. Can you talk about that for us?
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Yes. So the museum has depended upon federal funding for projects.
So we've invested about two and a half million dollars of federal monies coming from the National Endowment for the Humanities, National Endowment for the Arts, Institute of Museum and Library Services, Northern Borders Regional Commission, and then state agencies who get a bulk of their funding from the feds.
So the Vermont Arts Council, the Vermont Humanities Council.
And since that money is dried up, I now have to figure out how am I going to pay for projects and cover operation costs at the same time.
And there's not a lot of funding available, even from the typical banks, which we turn to because they too have changed their funds funding to now focus on things such as food insecurity, housing insecurity, healthcare insecurity.
And they've turned rightly away from funding institutions like the Vermont Granite Museum. I don't fault them for that. And I need them to be in our community supporting others in need.
So I need to broaden this family that the museum has and that's looking towards the memorial dealers that are out there that have connections or have had ones in the past here with the state of Vermont.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Well, we would certainly like to do what we can to help promote that concept through MB News, through the podcast, through MB&A in general.
So anything that we can do to partner to bring that message to the retailers and other manufacturers, we would certainly be happy to do so. But as you know, the monument industry, as widespread as it is, is not what I would call a rich industry. Right. There's not a lot of money flying around in the industry to support these kind of projects. So it does make it challenging, but it doesn't make it any less of important either.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Correct. And one of the exhibits that we are working on, and it's taken time to collect the information, is this connection that continues to the present between memorial dealers largely throughout the mid atlantic, northeast and midwest with Vermont.
These relationships began in the late 19th century, and they continue to the present.
And so I want to help people to understand when they come to visit the museum, especially from those regions, that you can't just walk in the door to one of our manufacturers and request a monument. Well, the first thing we tell them is that, no, you need to go home.
You can stay here and take a look at what we can do for you. But we don't have the. The ability to handle the monument after it gets to your community. And so you need to talk to your locals. They're the ones that can shepherd this entire process.
They can work closely with you. They understand your community. They understand your unique needs.
And so our exhibit has helped out a great deal of answering some of those basic questions of, well, how do I get something from Barry? Go home.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Right. And of those retailers, there aren't any better prepared than members of monument builders of north America. So there's a plug for that.
So I get an order in the jar.
So I hear that the museum is preparing some special exhibits for this year's granite festival. What's that all about?
[00:26:11] Speaker A: So we were very fortunate to get a sizable fund, $132,000 from the American gift fund, to redesign.
Roughly one third of the exhibits within the building and the exhibits prior have been made by community members. So I've got first graders from Barrytown elementary that have done work, and I've got graduate students, and I have community members who have retired from the industry to help flesh out the content.
Well, we want to take it to the next level.
We want to make the exhibits more professional, reach a wider audience.
We've got a lot more research material than we had previously. And so we're spending our time and energy in redesigning that content so that it will be more attractive, more engaging, and more interactive in terms of the materials that we have.
And so families, individuals with knowledge about the granite industry can come here and all find a place for them.
And so that's one of the big projects we're working on now and that's why the electrical kids are here today. They're working on trying to give me additional outlets so we can put in some television so that we can create these short video clips that will go on cycle. And you can see the historic video footage. We've scanned 150 films dating from 1908 right through to the early 2000s.
These are films that were created by the Bar Granite association and its predecessors and also different manufacturers during the period. And so you get to see the juxtaposition of historically how things were done and the way it is done today.
And so those will be around as well as content that you'll be able to read and view and interact with, like pulley stations, gear stations, so you can understand the mechanics, the science behind what's happening.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: That, that would be quite the visit. So when is the Granite Festival?
[00:28:17] Speaker A: The Granite festival is Saturday, September 20, from 10:00am to 4:00pm It's a free event thanks to our sponsors.
We've tried to make our events free to bring in the widest audience and we've tried to encourage people come inter engage with the sculptors, the designers, the manufacturers that are here during the day and enjoy the space and encourage them to become members or supporters of the museum. So again, we can reach that sustainability which is the golden ring we're reaching for.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Absolutely.
So let's talk a little bit about opportunities for monument builders, retailers to collaborate with the museum on future projects and events.
How did they get involved?
[00:29:13] Speaker A: So one of the things they can do is contact me directly at the museum and if they want to help with developing this exhibit about this relationship that happens between our manufacturers and our dealers would be really helpful.
And we also have an exhibit that will engage you directly.
Monument builders.
We've got a full set of the magazines and we're trying to point out to people how important these trade magazines have been to the industry in sharing knowledge.
And so I've got a full exhibit about trade Magazines from the 1870s up to the present and how these have been the guiding guidepost for the industry as it moves forward, helping to inform them as to what is on the horizon, what is most effective in terms of how you operate and sharing information about the successes that have happened within the industry.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: So how does one go about getting in touch with you at the museum?
[00:30:19] Speaker A: So here at the museum, you can email me at directornetmuseum.org or you can give us a call at 802-476-4605 or stop by at 7 Jones Brothers Way in Barry, Vermont.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: There you go. So how does the museum envision its role in shaping the future of of granite artistry, the granite workforce, and the monument industry at large?
[00:30:49] Speaker A: So I think it's twofold.
One is to bring in individuals, especially the youth, to experience what the granite industry has to offer.
And I'm a museum professional because my parents took me to museums as a kid.
I'm also a professional archaeologist because my parents had me watching Jacques Cousteau on public television and all these other archeology programs. And it's that point in your life where you get really inspired that this is the path I want to take. And so we want to provide that inspiration for the youth that here's an opportunity for you. Wouldn't it be awesome to be able to make a sculpture like this or to design something, fabricate something that could be know last for thousands of years?
And the second is to follow up with those folks that have this desire to work with their hands, to use their imagination and so being able to provide classes. They're introductory. No one will likely come out of the Granite Museum and become a master sculptor immediately, but the idea is to try to provide the basic skills and knowledge so that they can then find someone to mentor, find a manufacturer or dealer or someone who's willing to take them under the wing and move them through the process of becoming someone who aspires to one who ultimately is able to do it and do it with pride.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: Well, those are certainly lofty goals and aspirations and I wish you well with them.
They are badly needed in our industry for sure, and in many other industries for that matter. But let's focus on home and the Monument Building.
So Scott, I want to thank you for sharing your time with me and our audience today. I encourage listeners to reach out to you to learn more about supporting the museum.
The June issue of MB News is the Design issue, which includes a look into the Vermont Granite Museum.
So thank you all for listening to Monument Matters. MB&A invites you to stay connected through Facebook and LinkedIn or visit www.monumentbuilders.org for upcoming events and webinars for MBNA. I'm Michael Johns. Thanks for taking time out of your day to listen today. If you found this worthwhile, please take a minute and share the link with a friend for comments and feedback. We'd love to hear from you, so please drop us a
[email protected] thanks for listening and have a great rest of your day.
