Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Welcome to Monument Matters, a podcast produced.
[00:00:08] Speaker C: By the Monument Builders of North America.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: For all things memorialization.
Each episode is an extension of our monthly magazine, MB News. Monument Matters invites everyone to listen and share. You'll find all of the episodes on Apple, Spotify and YouTube on Mike I'm.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: Your host, Mike Johns, CM AICA from the Johns Carabelli Company Cimorano Monuments and Flowers in Cleveland, Ohio. I'm also a past president of the Monument Builders of North America.
So welcome to season two, episode two of MB&A's Monument Matters entitled the Stone Carver's Apprentice. Before we dive into today's discussion, I'd like to take a minute for a shout out to the great folks of the Pacific Northwest Monument Builders and California Monument Builders Associations.
I just spent a few days with them in Reno, Nevada where I participated in some excellent educational programs. So thank you folks for that terrific experience.
So with me today are Ross Oglesby and Dan Weirs. Ross is from Keystone Memorials, a business founded in Elberton, Georgia by his grandfather in 1941.
He and his siblings run the day to day operations since their father retired.
Dan weirs is the CAM CNC Tech lead at Cold Spring with 26 years there. Congratulations Dan for that. Dan brings deep experience in CNC, milling machining and 5 axis programming in order to complete complex memorialization and sculptural projects. Gentlemen, welcome to today's podcast.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: So my first question is to Dan. Dan, I recognize cnc, but what is cam?
[00:01:52] Speaker C: A CAM Integrated Machining. It would be the programming side of the CNC work.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: So CNC or computer Numerical control uses computer guided tools to cut, shape and carve stone with precise, repeatable accuracy.
These machines were already common in other stone applications before entering the monument work. For from your company's point of view, what made the monument industry ready or hesitant to adopt CNC technology?
[00:02:23] Speaker C: Dan well, our CNC department got started a little before with the Cutwell company. A little before I joined onto the CNC department.
Some of the major issues they were trying to overcome or at least prove out was was it going to be efficient at large scale? You know, if you imagine making a five foot bowl, you know you have to carve out the, the middle of that. You know, an old way would be to go in with saw blades and hammer and chisel and chunk all that out. But you can just, you know, put a, put a diamond tool in and let it mill for 40 hours and you know, and then you're done.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: So it is working.
[00:03:02] Speaker C: It is Working? Yeah. Yeah. We've discovered you can put a machine stone on on a Friday and come in on a Monday, and it's. That's done with not a whole lot of human intervention.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Ross, any comments?
[00:03:15] Speaker B: No. I mean, I completely agree. That's the. The great thing with the CNC machines are the accuracy that they would provide.
And like Dan said, you can put something up on a Friday afternoon and then feel confident when you come in on Monday, that piece is finished and ready to continue along in production.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: So let's talk about the bad first, just for a quick second. How many Mondays do you come in and go, oh, something went amok?
And what is that amok, Dan?
[00:03:51] Speaker C: It does happen. We actually have a weekend shift, so our Friday to Monday isn't completely lights out.
And actually we have a large sculpture piece. It's more of a memorial thing, I believe. It's a Native American sculpture. It's been on the machine for almost a week now. And there was several. Several issues over the weekend that I was addressing. I didn't come into Monday to a surprise, but it wasn't where I wanted to be.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Got it. So where did those. Where did those problems stem? Is it programming? What. What do you generally typically programming?
[00:04:23] Speaker C: This. This piece I'm working on is. It's a very organic thing. You measure stuff. It's not like three inches here, four inches there. It's a complete, you know, know, sculpted, organic piece. Figuring out the stock that you're starting with is. Is usually kind of a difficult task.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: Uhhuh.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Russ, you get unexpected tool crashes.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Yep. And, like, I had one running over this weekend, and I have cameras set up on the machine so I can be at home sitting on the couch, look at my phone, and go. Machine hung up.
And it was just as simple as it went to go pick up the tool. And the tool was not placed in there just right. And it said, nope, let's pause. Something's not behaving correctly. And Saturday morning came up here and said, all right, reposition that tool. And she finished running over the weekend.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: So the machine was smart enough to recognize it had a problem.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: It is one where if it senses low air pressure, low water pressure, something's wrong with the tool. Then the machine will automatically pulse. It's almost too hesitant at times.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Got it.
So what. Okay, so I understand X, y, and Z. What are the five axis?
[00:05:42] Speaker C: So you listed off X, y, and Z. You've also got head rotation and angle of the spindle motor. That would be the fifth and sixth axis.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:53] Speaker C: And that just allows you to reach and, you know, you could do undercuts up into little pockets, coming at it from most angles.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Sure. Okay, that makes sense. So what was the steepest part of the learning curve for you, Dan, when. When first.
When you first started getting involved with cnc?
[00:06:12] Speaker C: Well, so for me, again, I came in late. I know some of the initial things were just how fast. You know, feeds and speeds in the metal world are all very well established for a long time. You know, all their tooling is. It's hasn't. I mean, I shouldn't say it hasn't evolved, but it's got some standards that you can go by. You know, when we were getting heavy into milling granite, there wasn't a lot of people doing that yet. So we had to figure out those feeds and speeds. You know, how deep can we go, how fast can we move tool rpm? We actually designed our own tools in house. We have a diamond department that makes tooling. So it's. We had. We have that primitive typing ability, you know, on hand. Within a couple days, we could have a new style tool to go ahead and try.
But just figuring out those feeds and speeds that worked was very difficult.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Got it. And, Ross, what about you? Where was your learning curve?
[00:07:01] Speaker B: Well, when I first came into us having the cnc, it was the very first CNC in the town of Elberton. So without reaching out to Cold Spring or anybody else, there was no one I could really go down the street to and say, hey, how did y' all handle this problem? And with that, our tool reps that were in Elberton had not experienced any of this either. So I like to kind of tell the story that when we first got it in, we had a technician from Italy come with the machine. And he stayed with me for six weeks when it was first installed. And we. He was carving something on there as a test piece, as a practice piece. And the machine came in and it just revved up and locked down the spindle. And he kind of like quickly made some changes, slowed it down a little bit, did that again. And then it happened a third time. And he started cussing under his breath in Italian. And then he looks at me and goes, granite's hard. I was like, yep, yeah, it definitely is. So we've learned you have to take smaller bites each pass. Only make a 1 millimeter deep cut as I go in. And with that, you have to really dial in your feed rate, how fast that. So saw blade or the diamond tool will cut in. And with your Georgia grays you can cut it one speed. If you ever had to cut a piece of Wausau red or something that has a lot of quartz in it, you definitely have to slow it down a little bit.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: So much of the. How much of the upfront is, for lack of a better term, keyboard information entry and how much of it is price, perhaps? Here's a model that I want to duplicate. How do you, how do you get the information into the machine to produce what you want coming out, Dan?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: So anything complex is going to have a digital 3D model. A lot of the stuff we have an on staff digital designer. She'll, she'll purchase models, she'll design models herself, you know, tweak things back and forth to the customer. And then once we have an approved model, then, then it gets handed off to me and I have, you know, the, the 3D software that I can just basically position it and then start having my software tell it, you know, tool paths.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Okay, Raj, does that look the same for you? How does that work?
[00:09:28] Speaker B: It, it does. And that's especially if we're doing sculpture work. But, you know, probably 75% of pieces that I run are own by CNC will be different monumental shapes. And so when we first got the cnc, we thought, hey, this is going to be great to do this sculpture and this and this. But then we quickly learned the CNC is wonderful for putting washes on bases or to do a, you know, deep panel that has a check and then an ogee inside of that panel to have everything real precise. And, and so when I'm doing kind of geometry based drawings like a check, a wash, an og, a Scotia that will be drawn in just kind of a. I do it in solidwork. So it's a simple CD based CAD program.
So you don't have to have an artist to draw in that different model. It can all be just computer based based on shapes.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: Okay, so Ross, what percentage would you say of your jobs like you said, are members and pieces, parts? And what percentage are things that you would categorize more like sculpture?
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Probably about 80% of what I'm doing would be those standard shapes and the shape days versus the sculpture. But with that, you know, that may include columns. And so I'll be turning a column on our lathe and then polishing that column. So it's not just your bases and different member style work. But then, you know, I will have different sculpture based pieces that may be a Sacred Heart of Christ or it may be a Mary or right now I'm doing a native American. It's a Muskogee dot and it is kind of a rope style twisted through shape that's almost in the shape of a Swiss cross, but they twist in and out over each other like you would see in a Celtic knot.
Okay, so. Yeah.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: And then what about.
Got it. So, Dan, what. What about your projects? How do they fall out?
[00:11:46] Speaker C: We do a lot of big mausoleums, you know, like million dollar family mausoleum.
And those things are going to have elements everywhere. Even if it's not just a sculpture, it's going to be fancy moldings and stuff like that. And these CNC machines have been absolutely invaluable for work like that.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Also primarily members and moldings.
[00:12:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
To what Ross said. They're so good at putting a wash on.
CNC machines aren't necessarily just like a rotating milling tool. We have fully CNC capable machines that just use a regular saw blade and, you know, can cut in sideways with the saw blade. Sweeping, we call it, gives you really nice, clean finishes on these. These molding pieces that you barely have to touch by hand after that.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: Got it. Okay.
So is that really where the future of the machine is? I mean, what's the. What really.
Where. Where do monument. Where does Monument work really get the greatest benefit from that 5 axis machine?
[00:12:50] Speaker C: For the 5 axis stuff, sculpture work is where it's at, you know, because you need to be able to get at, you know, all your sides to do a sculpture work. But you'd really be surprised. We have several smaller envelope, three axis machines that don't have the rotation and the tip of the head. And we'll do column capitals on there. You know, you have to do multiple setups of the Pierce, but those small type machines give you, you know, better accuracy and better performance.
Really, you get very complex stuff even with just a three axis machine.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Okay, Ross, where do you see us headed?
[00:13:27] Speaker B: The greatest benefit that I've seen with our CNC is how much of stock removal and the accuracy that you can get. Where if I was to do this out in the plant and would be creating a lot of dust that the guys would have to be working around.
So the having it in a separate area, it's quiet, prevents all that dust from around my stone cutters. And the accuracy has really been the benefit that we have seen.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I can appreciate how, you know, using water with the machine is important in a lot of ways, but for a man to use water in similar application, it's much more difficult. Right. So a lot of what he's Doing is dry work that is creating an awful lot, a lot of dust and. Yeah, for sure.
So is there a particular project, Ross, that really got you excited and said, yes, this investment was worth the.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: It's kind of funny because. And it was one of the ones we did in the very first year. But how simple it was, but how accurate it came off the machine. It was a sub base for Troy Caldwell, but it had a check and then a bulldoze and then an OG and then another little member around the bottom. And everything was so tight and fine and detailed, but I was able to put it on the machine. And then the next morning I came in and the whole thing was finished. There was very little grinding we had to do, but the piece lined up perfectly with a quarter inch border around the top for the die. And it just the, the precision. I went, okay, this, you know, I'm not carving these Chinese angels hanging over the sides of a heart that we thought these things would be knocking out all the time. No, it's, it's that simple precision, but having that perfect detail.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Got it. All right, Dan, tell me your experience. When was the eye?
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:15:35] Speaker C: So, you know, similar to Ross, it was pretty early on in my experience. We will do a lot of, you know, large landscape type projects and this one, the, the Martin Luther King memorial in Washington D.C. we didn't do the big Martin Luther King statue, but there's hundreds and hundreds of benches, you know, organic benches that shrink and grow and curve and follow hundreds of pieces. No two of them were alike. You know, if we had to do that, you know, old ways, we would be applying patterns and laying out and just kind of praying that the middle went to where it should. But with the CNC machines, you know, we're able to, each piece has a digital model. The machine follows it just right. And now we're using those patterns just at the end just to check, you know, the ends that it's going to line up with the next piece, you know, run them, set up three, four of them in the shop just to kind of look at everything just flows beautifully as intended. That's, that's a huge. Having those digital models to follow.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: Sure.
So you, you've been, you've been actually at the helm of the machine for how long, Dan?
[00:16:39] Speaker C: I was operating for, well, a short time before I started programming. I was operator programming for probably 10 to 12 years. And now I'm more on a programming kind of overseeing the program.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: And Ross, you. Which hats are you wearing now?
[00:16:56] Speaker B: Too many.
So, yeah, We've had our CNC for about 12, 13 years now. And probably six years ago, I handed off the day to day operations of our CNC to another lady. But I'm still right there with it all the time. Whenever we get a detailed sculpture project or something that she just says, hey, I need you to double check all of this. Let's get these up and running.
And then I spend the rest of my time expediting pieces through the plant.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Got it. Okay.
So as you, as your time with the machine and the process continues, what are you continuing to learn? What are you continuing to tweak?
Because it's not just one and done right. I mean it's gotta be a constant learning something. So what, what changes over time for you guys?
[00:17:58] Speaker C: Tooling is, is good. I've always got my eyes open for, for good tooling, you know, to the point working with granite. Granite is a very hard material. These CNC machines with all their accuracy.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Are, are very rigid.
[00:18:11] Speaker C: And so sometimes at that very small level, just a little bit jerky, you know, if we go and try to go to too small a detail, we end up chipping, chipping things and then actually making it harder for our sculptor to come in and go. So I've always got my eyes on, you know, better tooling to allow me to get to that finer detail with some efficiency. You know, we could slow the machine way down and get a ridiculously intricate sculpture off the machine, but it's going to take four days to where a hand sculptor would do that same thing in 10 hours, you know.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Really?
[00:18:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Okay, so there are situations then where a man is actually faster than machine.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: Absolutely. We, we almost never give a customer a sculpture right off of a machine. There's always manual work to be done.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: But I mean, so are you saying that it's the cleanup that a man can do faster?
[00:19:08] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:09] Speaker C: Experience for sure.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: So it's, it's still the, it's still the roughing, the heavy lifting. Let's say that the machine is good at. But you're always going to need that craftsman to take it from this to acceptable for a customer to see.
[00:19:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I think especially when dealing with granite, it's, it's just so hard. You know, I've, I've had that exact same experience that Ross had with the Italian tech coming like word for word. My experience with those guys, you know, they're marvel.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: Marvelous.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: So do you see the, the five axis machine allowing us to really consider teaching guys to sculpt again? I mean, you Know it. It gives us a leg up. So it's not completely from scratch. How does that. How does that affect the.
The workforce, would you say, Russ?
[00:20:05] Speaker B: So it definitely will open it up more because having these machines that I like to call them, they do the apprentice work for the sculpture, so they're removing a large chunk of the material, and that really helps with proportions.
So, you know that this model is the. The shape of the face, the shape of the nose, the size of the nose to the ears to the mouth are all in proportion. So the machine will do that work. Whereas if someone is a little bit green on the sculpture side, you know, he may take that saw cut blade and cut off just a little bit too much and then be discouraged from continuing along the process of learning where the. With these machines, they can really focus on their hand tooling skills and follow the paths that the machine has already created for them.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: So we. We talked a little bit about how the CNC machine has changed a little bit of the physical demands and safety conditions inside the shop. Right.
Are there any other points that you want to cover in that regard, Dan?
[00:21:22] Speaker C: Like Raoul Ross mentioned, you know, keeping the dust away from the people. You can remove all that bulk, you know, you know, away from anybody, water, everywhere, without getting somebody. So.
So that. That's been huge. Just the, you know, some of the different tools they use, you know, these pneumatic hammers and stuff like that, that. That gets really hard on shoulders and elbows and stuff, and these guys just don't have to use those tools anymore as much.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: Right.
Okay, Russ, anything else to consider there?
[00:21:51] Speaker B: No. I mean, Dan hit the nail on the head right there. And it's the great thing of using these CNC machines in combination with your other machines in the plant. So, you know, if I had a large piece, like it's probably been eight years ago now, we did a full size replica of the Pia top, all out of marble. But with that, we saw the Watts down on our big diamond saws, and then we took it to our contour wire saw, which would cut in 2D shapes, and it removed a lot of the material before. Then it came to the cnc, and I was able to tell the cnc, this is how much of the block we have left. And then it did all that cutting loose, where if all of this would have had been done by hand, it would have been all of these separate cuts under a, you know, stationary saw. And then that sculptor would have been climbing all on top of it with a dry cut blade. Or a pneumatic hammer to really cut in.
And it removed a lot of that wear and tear on the sculptor and let him focus on the detailed work that he was really good at.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: So here's an interesting question. Ross first and then Dan. So your head sculptor guy, when he saw the machine coming in, the decision was made. It's coming into the plant. What was his reaction? And then we'll get Dan. Dan's side as well. How did they see this coming into the marketplace?
[00:23:30] Speaker B: The gentleman I was using at that time was excited about it because he quickly saw how much stop removal that it was doing for that. He was like, hey, I don't have to sit there and eat dust all day. Yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: And Dan, your guys, my guy, told.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: Me that we were going to do all the boring stuff and just save all the fun stuff for him.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Right, okay.
And I can see that. Right? For sure.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: As a guy who cuts raised letters, you know, I'm not a. Not a sculptor. I'm not going to say that I am, but I could certainly appreciate the heavy lifting for the machine detail. Fine. Beautiful tweaking by the artist, for sure. So are there any projects that you would. On the one hand, you would think this is perfect for cnc, but actually, no. Are there some that are just not a good fit? And if so, will that change?
What do you see?
[00:24:29] Speaker C: The real delicate stuff? We have a very robust sandblast department that does a lot of really, really good stuff with Shape carve, and I think a lot of that stuff would be really hard to replicate with a CNC machine. You know, some of the methods they use with the different grits and, you know, angles, the way they approach the sandblast, you can get some really, really beautiful stuff done with just sand that I don't think we could touch with a CNC machine.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Interesting. Ross, what's your experience?
[00:24:58] Speaker B: I completely agree, because just because you can see it on a computer screen and just because you can create that 3D model does not mean that that's going to then turn around and be able to replicate onto the stone. Because, yes, you can do that. Real, fine, detailed work on the edge of an ionic column, but when it ends up being only an eighth of an inch thick, it's going to break off, and it should not have been drawn that way.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: I wouldn't know what you're talking about, Ross.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: No, no. It's a mystery.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: All right.
[00:25:35] Speaker C: We get some pretty crazy apps from customers, too. You know, they'll want a Sculpture standing like this. And then the wrists are only, you know, inch and a quarter bag. I was like, you know, we can maybe do that, but it's going to last a week out in the field.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:49] Speaker C: Somebody's going to break it.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: So it's, it's made it easier and safer for our employees. I think that's great. It opens up opportunities for our customers that maybe we didn't have just a few years ago. It certainly makes the domestic manufacturer much more competitive with these importer competitors.
So I think that's, that's win, win. I haven't, I haven't gotten a. Not a win yet because it really doesn't replace a man. What it does is make a man's job a little bit easier.
And I could certainly see the value there.
So always, you know, it sounds like with the exception of members and pieces, parts like that, which the machine and the technology are pretty great at, to get into the art part, you're still going to require a man's hand to put the finishing touches on, which I think is really great.
[00:26:55] Speaker C: And some of that artistry even applies to the machine operator themselves. You know, there's times where you gotta, you know, put in a shift to get it a little bit closer or there's some finessing there that you can do even at the machine controls.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: So are there caveats or anything that as a retailer, when I'm talking to my customers, are there.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: What.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: What expectations should I be setting for them or what expectations should I not be setting for them?
[00:27:24] Speaker C: In our experience here, I think it's a big, big benefit to be able to more accurately show them what they're going to get. You know, when that customer signs off on a design, I'm using that exact same design in my software to make the part. You know, there's not a couple of interpretations in between there.
So pretty much what this customer sees is, you know, essentially what they're going to get with some obvious, you know, hand work at the end. You know, things float around, but for the most part, what they. They're getting a good representation of what they're going to get at the end.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Ross, anything else there to an example that a lot of monument dealers would be able to understand this. It's the difference between a hand etching and a laser etching, where you don't have that artist interpretation that you do on the, on the hand etching. So when you show a family that artist sketch and then when it comes on the stone, they say, oh, that doesn't look anything like it where you know, with that laser etching you'd say, look the. This is going to be 99% of what you're going to have on stone. So it's taking out that little bit of human interpretation and giving them the accuracy, but still with a human hand.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: At the very right. I got it. Okay. And again, I would say that that is true more or less as it relates to the actual skill level of that etcher. So. So I don't want to take away anything from. From some etchers. I've seen some, some folks that are just. You cannot tell the difference between the etching and the photograph submitted. But true.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: And that hand etching looks better than the laser etching because they can get in there and add in those different shadings that.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
Yep. Okay, so it looks like we're pretty well common to.
Time to wrap up. So I want to thank today's guest, Dan Weirs from Cold Spring and Ross Oglesby from Keystone. We appreciate you taking time out of your day to share your experience with our audience. So before I finish wrapping up, is there anything, any last, last tidbits, Ross or Dan that you'd like to share?
[00:29:41] Speaker C: I guess one thing we do going off of these digital models is we have a 3D printer and we'll print out either individual pieces.
And that's hugely beneficial for guys on the floor. You know, some of this stuff gets pretty complex even for just building work.
So for them to be able to hold it in their hand and turn it and see what it's supposed to look like, that's been huge. Not only that, as we'll print out, you know, a full representation of the mausoleum customer will be coming through and then they end up taking it with them.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Right, okay.
[00:30:14] Speaker C: So that 3D printing, you know, expanding on the CNC work has been really, really beneficial for us as well.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Okay, I can see that, Ross.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it's having these, these 3D models that you know, will completely duplicate back onto the stone is, you know, as Dan was saying, great for the families.
Even better for my sculptor to be able to see the one to one comparisons. But I had one family where the cemetery asked me, they said, look, this lady wants to see a full size. Said, okay, that's fine. They're like, yeah, but this is a column job that's 20 foot long and 18ft tall that they still want to see a full size. And so I worked with the cemetery and we create. We did a vinyl print and created the thing complete 20 foot long and ran it up three flag poles in the middle of the cemetery for her to see. But the great thing was after she saw that I brought it back and and was able to put it in the plant. And so now the sculptor who is doing those Corinthian capitals for the columns can see one to one. Okay, my curve needs to be just like this and he can go and measure and check and come back and forth.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: I got it.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Awesome. All right, so the February issue of MB News is a tooling and carving issue which features an article about the use of CNC machines in the monument industry.
So I encourage you to read this issue and every issue of NB News. So if you have a topic you'd like to have covered in a future podcast, please leave a comment.
I want to thank you all for listening to monument matters. MB&A invites you to stay connected through Facebook and LinkedIn, or visit www.monimalbuilders.org for upcoming events and webinars like our upcoming industry show in a couple of weeks down in Fort Worth. Let's see for mbna, I'm Michael Johns. Thanks for taking time out of your day to listen. If you found this worthwhile, please take a minute and share the link with a friend again for comments and feedback. We'd love to hear from you, so please drop A note to infoonumentbuilders.org all right, Dan Ross, thanks again for taking time out of your day and sharing with our audience. Audience, have a great day. Appreciate your attention. Thank you.
Sam.
